Making $300K From a Single Flip with Guest Shelby

Dan: Welcome to the real estate investing podcast, where we help you unlock your potential freedom through land investing, real estate investing, and entrepreneurship. Hey everyone, welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. Today, we have a special guest Shelby Wengreen. Shelby has been a very successful land investor and was able to quit her nine to five job through land flipping and has just been a really dedicated member of the land investing online community for quite some time now.

And I think a lot of our listeners will really benefit from your story. Shelby, welcome to the show.

Shelby: Thank you for having me excited to be here.

Dan: Sweet. Let’s go over your journey. I kind of want to just start by talking about your night, your past job, like what did you do in your past job? Just your generic, what did your life look like before land?

And then what made you transition from your nine to five to land in where you’re at now?

Shelby: Yeah, before land, I was doing marketing. So I worked at Pinterest for a bit. And then after Pinterest, I worked for a influencer agency where I handled their paid promotion across social platforms. Uh, I always kind of knew that that was something I enjoyed, but I didn’t want to be a nine to five employee for the rest of my life.

I had a huge goal of being a stay at home mom, like ever since. I’m not a mom yet, but I want to create the foundation for that moving forward. Um, so, and my husband, he’s a school teacher. He’s now switching careers to do surveying. So, uh, now, yeah, now felt like the time to just, uh, give it my full commitment in land and see what I can make happen after having a couple of deals.

I feel like really what could make this a full time gig for me is having more time to send out more mail.

Dan: Exactly. What, what sparked your interest? Cause I know you’ve been in other real estate industries before and not land. And then you kind of transitioned to land. What sparked the interest for land investing?

Shelby: My uncle actually is the person who told me about land. He did some buying and selling on. Uh, tax properties here in Utah. Um, so I came to him because he has quite a bit of funds, and I asked him if he’d be willing to be an investor if I could find a fourplex or something along those lines. And he said he didn’t really want to invest in that kind of property at the moment, but he would look into land because he saw great success with that when he was kind of starting out on his real estate journey.

Uh, and he did a little bit of that before transitioning over. So I started looking up all the land podcast land, everything I could find online. And that’s how I found you.

Dan: Did his success at all during the hard times? I’m just curious. Cause obviously business isn’t easy. Did his success, him having that help help you?

Like, did you keep that in the back of? Your mind that he had some success in land, like throughout your journey.

Shelby: Yeah, for sure. I mean, he came, uh, he did quite a different, uh, quite a few different things in his journey as well. He was a realtor at one point he did some invest land investing with a partner.

Um, now he kind of does, uh, he’s more on the business side. He focuses on stocks, um, but still a very successful guy. And, uh, Um, him having that much success in land. I knew that land could be successful and also seeing the community and being surrounded by people who are also being successful in land helped push me along to where I never, I always saw the light at the end of the tunnel.

Dan: Exactly. And I kind of wanted to transition because I know there are major obstacles in this business. I remember you are a coaching member. So I remember some of the things you and chase your partner chase were. When we first started working with you and some of the obstacles and sending mail and not getting some deals.

What, how did you overcome? Like, what were your guys’s behind the scene conversations? What, like, where, where are you guys at in terms of how, how’d you overcome that, those situations together?

Shelby: It was hard. I’m not going to lie. We, we got our first deal. Uh, I joined the program in probably June, June or July, sent out my first mailer in September, got our first deal, um, in October.

And we bought and sold that property within a day and doubled our money. So it was a great experience. Yeah, it was a great experience. A great way for me to be like, wow, I can really make this work. Um, and Chase was my funding partner on that deal. And after that, we decided to become full time. Partners.

And, um, then we mailed for probably another six months. And I thought at the time, Oh, I overpriced Teller County. I don’t want to do that again. So I mailed a bunch of different counties and underpriced, and then I wasn’t getting responses. And it was a huge learning curve from what I thought I was adjusting from my initial pricing.

Um, and that’s why we joined the coaching program. We really wanted some help to, uh, get better in those areas and improve because we did know that land could work. We’ve already had it proven to us. We just knew that something we were doing wasn’t quite right. And what could we do to adjust and change?

Dan: Exactly. So you had that proof of concept pretty early, Ron..

Ron: Yeah. So yeah, obviously the struggle is everything like that. And what I’ve seen from you, like, obviously we’ve. Done a one on one coaching stuff like that, like your growth, but your, yours and Chase’s growth in terms of, I don’t think either of you guys are naturally sales people, but I think that kind of grew on you and like you started grinding out deals.

Um, talk about that growth. Cause a lot of people coming in, like maybe they’re good with data. Maybe they’re good at customer. I don’t know. Some people, everyone comes in with missing something. Talk about your growth. Like, cause I think what you guys were missing was that sales aspect at first. Talk about that a little bit.

Shelby: Yeah. With sales. Um, I wouldn’t say that I’m naturally a sales professional. I have done sales in, uh, in some of my. But I wouldn’t ever consider myself a pro. And, uh, with sales, I feel like what was really shocking and a hard adjustment coming into land was that I would say, Hey, here, I’ll offer you 20, 000.

They’ll say, no, I want 40, 000. And then us being like, no, we’ll do 22. And then them saying, okay, we just didn’t see how that was possible. Um, and it felt like an uncomfortable conversation to have. But then after, Enough experience. You kind of gain that confidence of, Oh, these people aren’t as serious when they count it with 40, 000.

They’re more willing to take something, even if it’s only a couple thousand more than you originally offered.

Ron: It’s scary. Those conversations can be scary. And like the first few times, especially if it’s not like natural, as far as that, like, cause it is a little awkward, um, when you’re like, okay, I’m not meeting in the middle, I’ll meet at 22.

I, you, you want 40, 22 is the number. Um, and then they say, yes, like it just, I think Dan just like shooting more shots. That’s what we need. That’s what we’re doing with sending mail. Like it’s a shotgun approach. And then as far as the conversation, shooting more shots, every seller, you should have your final number with them at some point, just cause they shot you a hundred thousand, you offered them 20 doesn’t mean there’s not a meeting point at 27, 000, like those are real things that happen.

Um, is that kind of what you’ve seen, Dan, as far as successful members that I’ve seen that from Shelby and Chase specifically, like chasing those deals.

Dan: Yeah, you gotta chase every, mail’s expensive, leads are expensive, calls are, like, to get those calls, 13 calls on average per every 2, 000 mailers, like, that is a 150 lead right there, and you gotta treat them like that.

And I think every single, whether they’re calling in mad or whatever, you got to treat them all like it’s an expensive lead, I think. And that was such a good nugget. You just said, Shelby, you know, getting a call for 40, 000. Originally, you used to think that that’s no way. They’re asking for double, no way we can make that work.

That’s what we’re going to have to sell it for, but they just want to negotiate and they need that money. And you’re providing that value to them. So for anyone new or out there like that, I try to tell people that and get that point across the lot. Like you’ll be shocked at how many wins you’ll have from just being firm on a number and negotiating.

These people need money. They’re calling you for a reason typically.

Shelby: Yeah, for sure. And I’ve also noticed that, um, When you do counter, you can have points that are like, well, this is partly in a flood zone or only this amount is usable. And that can also help you feel a little bit more comfortable in those conversations.

That was something that I really struggled with. But then once I kind of had that as a crutch, those conversations became a lot easier, um, to have not being an, a salesperson by nature.

Dan: Yeah. But, uh, the hardest conversations, and I want to see your opinion on how you’ve dealt with these. Like you said, you’ve overpriced some mail.

Or you got it. You got to go back to that seller at 40, 000, who you offered and say, who signed and is ready to move forward and say, Hey, I can only offer you 22, 000 now. So now we’re kind of reversing it. We’re not going up, we’re going down on our word. How’s that been for you?

Shelby: Yeah, those ones are always fun.

Um, I, I feel like typically with those ones, I almost play it as like, it’s a joke. I, I reach out to them and I talk to them and I say, hey, when was the last time you visited the property? Um, like, what, what did you originally buy this property for? I ask a lot of discovery questions, just kind of get to know them a little bit better.

And then halfway through the convo, I’ll be like, yeah, so, You know, occasionally this happens, but, uh, it looks like we overpriced land, just isn’t going for that much in the area, and the best that we can do at this time is this, I know it’s not what you heard, and if you want to, if you want to move forward with someone else, that’s totally fine, but please keep my letter and hold on to it and think about what I’ve said, and most of the time they’ll laugh, and they’ll be like, no, I totally understand, I thought this was a lot too, so I’m okay moving forward with a lower amount,

Ron: Um, it’s crazy the amount of times people like negotiate down and it works.

Like sometimes you got to negotiate up and still try to win those battles. Um, but yeah, negotiating down, especially with defected land. And sometimes these sellers just know, like, they just like, okay, yeah, they, they were prices. I’d love to get 40, 000. Um, but like, I expect, I expected her to say this, like, that’s an expected conversation.

Um, that that’s been amazing. Kind of seeing your guys’s growth with that mindset with that. Cause I know it was a struggle for you guys. Do you think your like initial success, some people come in and their struggle is right off the bat. Like it is right off the bat. Like those first three mailers, maybe not don’t go as well.

They learn a lot. Do you think your success off the bat hurt you or helped you or what?

Shelby: Uh, I think it hurt and helped all at the same time. Um, it helps because it was like, I’ve already had the proof of concept. I know that this can work. I can do this again. I’ve done it once. Um, but it also hurt because.

That’s not every land deal as amazing as it is to buy and sell a property within the same day. That doesn’t happen most of the time. So, uh, I feel like it’s been kind of a learning experience since then. We’ve had some longer days on market. We’ve had to get more creative with how we sell things. I’ve had door dashers deliver signs to properties.

Um, we’ve gotten a little creative. You do!

Dan: I refer people to your story and then tell them to get creative with it.

Shelby: Yeah, I just posted it on a property. So we’ll see if I get any phone calls today or tomorrow about it. But

Dan: explain that, explain what you’re doing real quick.

Shelby: Yeah. So typically what I do, Self listing a property using it on the MLS.

These, uh, like flat rate brokers will charge like 99 to go place a sign on the property and I’m doing it for sale by owner anyway. So I kind of got a little creative and I door dash from like tractor supply. Office Max, whatever, I’ll DoorDash like the sign, the yard sign 6, and sometimes I’ll include a sharpie too, and I’ll tell the DoorDasher, if you put, put this in this area, and I normally give them like GPS coordinates.

Um, and send some pictures of like the street view of where I want the sign. Uh, if you put the sign there with my phone number, I’ll tip you an additional 10 once you send a clear picture of the image back to me. And I’ve done that with, uh, probably five or so properties and it’s actually been my reason for selling about three of those.

Ron: Wow. That’s really, really cool. And it’s creative. Like so many, like, that’s not something we teach in the course, guys. I’ll be a hundred percent transparent. I don’t say post something on door dash ever in the course, but it’s a Shelby kind of just being creative with things. Damn. Like it’s selling properties for her, finding a way to get a sign, getting a sign on a vacant piece of land is not the easiest thing and it can be really expensive because some of these drone people, they, they charge a lot of money.

Um, That’s amazing, Dan.

Dan: And that’s where we see a lot of successful members doing Ron. They take it and kind of take things, have an issue. Shelby needs a sign on her property. How do I get a sign? Shelby, I don’t even know how you came up with the idea of DoorDash. That wouldn’t have even crossed my mind, but somewhere along the line, you know, you had that idea and just kind of ran with it.

One time it worked and now you have that implemented in your business. And that’s what we see a lot of the successful land investors doing. I think I want to talk about partnerships cause you got a deal, got a funding partner for the deal. That funding partner was not your partner at the time, but now he’s your business partner.

50 50, correct? Correct. So let’s talk about that. Cause a lot of people I’d say probably. I’d, I’d say almost half the people in this, I have a, some sort of business partner, Ron. I don’t know if you agree with that or not, but about half have it. How has that partnership been along the way through the ups and downs through the whole process, splitting roles, like in general, let’s talk about that.

Shelby: Yeah, I’ve really enjoyed having Chase as a partner. It’s been super helpful to take the workload off of me and he’s a little bit more of a natural salesperson. So he’s kind of taken over the sales role since I initially, uh, was the person running everything. Uh, he takes over that and he also helps provide the funds.

So he’s good at the sales aspect. He has the funds to help fund some of our own deals. And I kind of manage the mail and everything else. Along those lines, he still works a full nine to five. So he’s pretty busy. Um, and I kind of pick up the slack there.

Dan: Nice! And that transition from your nine to five job, as we mentioned earlier, Shelby was able to quit her nine to five.

Thank you. Do some marketing things on the side still, from my understanding, we can talk about that, but you’re able to quit your nine to five because you have this income and this business you’re building on the side. What was that? How scary was that transition for you? And what was that like?

Shelby: It was scary.

I’m not going to lie. I mean, it’s, it’s more like taking a leap of faith on myself. I know that I can make this work I’ve done. A consistent amount of deals. Uh, we’ve done at least one a month for the past six months. Uh, and I feel pretty good about our deal flow. Plus, we have some bigger deals in the pipeline coming through that I’m really excited about.

And I feel like can justify me quitting. Um, but I also feel like with quitting, uh, I’ll have way more time to focus on mail. And if there’s anything that I’ve noticed, Since doing land. The more mail you get, the more leads you get and the more opportunities that you have.

Ron: Absolutely. Um, talk about that a little bit.

I know you said you’re going after some bigger deals. I know you have a couple in the pipeline. Talk a little more specific. We love bigger deals about Yeah. We, we love bigger deals. Talk about that. Uh, I think you, there’s one particular that you, uh, had that you’re really excited about. Talk about that a little bit.

Shelby: Yeah. This deal, um, it’s still in the pipeline, so I don’t have any solid numbers for you, but, um, we’re acquiring it for 165,000. And we ended up doing a value add for the person who’s selling the land. It’s a cutoff from their initial property. Um, so it wasn’t technically available, but we found a way to make it work.

And then we’re subdividing that land further to where our profit, growth profit, should be around like we buy for 165, sell for 440 to 480.

Ron: That should, uh, that should replace some of your income out of, uh, that’s amazing. And that’s, that’s, it’s just an easy value at Dan. Like she’s not doing anything crazy or anything like she’s sending mail, working the leads and like finding a solution for sellers.

Like we are finding solutions for these sellers. Simple little survey that she’s doing. Go ahead though, Dan, you had something to add.

Dan: Yeah. I want to talk about that. Cause she said a cutoff. I want to explain to the listeners what a cutoff is. So I’m assuming Shelby by cutoff, you offered someone who had their actual primary.

House on it, primary residence on it, and they had land. How many, how many acres was it?

Shelby: Uh, their overall acreage was around 70 something acres and we’re taking 30.

Dan: You’re taking 30. So they had 70 something acres and then they’re, they want to sell 30 of them to make some money on their land or get the cash that they need.

That is an extremely high value ad. Like people, they own 78, they don’t need all 78. They’ve been there long enough to know they don’t need all 78. They’re not using it all. Shelby got talking to them, ended up proposing that they can cut it off doing all that. Got a survey form. It’s a really, really strong value ad.

And that’s a niche in itself. Like sending. Property owners with the primary residence with over 50 acres of it and offering to cut some land off like that’s a niche itself. And you kind of ran with that and I’d love to hear about that.

Ron: It definitely is. That’s interesting. Like you literally could send mail for exactly what you’re doing.

Like, I don’t know the rate of success. We’ve never targeted it. We’ve done these projects. Um, but you could literally, like Daniel said, 50 acres plus send mail to them. They have a primary residence on it. Um, just say like we have a surveyor and that’s what I would say in my, my letter, Dan is I have a surveyor who can get this survey done in three weeks.

Um, we’d love to buy a portion of your land. I understand you own 50 acres, X acres will buy up to 70% of your land. You can keep the rest, um, for X dollars per acre. So that is a niche in itself and there’s so much opportunity in this, what, what’s kind of the future with, uh, So you’re going to make a couple hundred thousand on that as well as, as long as everything goes well, what’s kind of your future goals in land?

Um, what are you targeting the next six, 12 months? You’re doing this full time. Like what’s your goals?

Shelby: Our goal for this year was to reach 500k and then we had six months of nothing. Um, but luckily one big deal can make up the difference. And so I think we’ll be able to make that by the end of the year as long as everything goes smoothly with this property.

Um, next year we’d like to double that, um, if not more. So we’re aiming for a million, uh, in gross profit. And we’ll see if we end up adjusting to something bigger halfway through the year.

Ron: So. Shelby going on that, like you’re talking about making a million dollars gross profit next year, a million dollars plus, I think you’ll do more than that if you keep up what you’re doing.

Um, it’s a big mindset with that. And I think there’s way bigger stuff, but a lot of people like listening, uh, it’s just the idea of the possibilities of that. It’s just, just crazy to them. I think a lot of people, where was your mindset? 18 months ago, two years ago, did you think you would have a business that would be hoping to make a million dollars in 2024?

Um, or what, what was your kind of mindset? What was the journey of like your mindset shift? Um, if it was at all, or maybe you just always had that bigger mindset.

Shelby: I, uh, have not always had that bigger mindset. I, I think it initially started. I had like a fitness journey and I, I, uh, really discovered myself in fitness.

And then I was like, well, if I can do this in fitness, what can I do in my personal life? Like what do I want to improve on with finances? And where do I want to be? I’ve always wanted to be a stay at home mom. Um, so then I kind of got, I, I was gravitated towards real estate. Um, and then when real estate happened, I went in and I was all bright eyed and bushy tailed at this course.

Um, But they kind of teach a little bit more about cashflow and owning properties, which is still something I want to do, but it’s what I want to reinvest my land money into to help with taxes and other things like that. Um, I quickly realized that I won’t be able to retire and quit my job in the next five years.

If I’m only cash flowing a hundred dollars properties for me to get to that kind of money. Uh, which is why I eventually ended up in land. And then honestly, I just kind of thought that it might be a side business, like something that I do on the side. I make 100, 000 a year or whatever, and I’m happy. But from there, I think that being in the course in the community, it’s really opened my eyes to what’s possible for other people.

Um, like initially starting, you would think, oh, 1, 000 and 100 bucks a month or whatever the course is, is a lot of money. But really, when you consider that that can be done. And one deal and you five extra money, 10 extra money from investing in the course. Uh, it’s kind of crazy. My concept of money has, has kind of changed.

I’ll look at 25, 000 and not think that it’s that big of a deal where three years ago that was a new car or something. So

Dan: Yeah . Going, going off that too. I was talking to someone yesterday. And I used to own an e commerce store and dropshipping stores and things like that. And those were like, if you have like a 3, 000 a month store, 4, 000 a month, you’d like have a successful store.

And I’m like, that is just such a fraction of what we’d see in land, like the cashflow wise and lands, the craziest thing about it. And that’s what we do. Just like you’re talking, we preach by use land, use the profit from land. Cause it’s extremely lucrative to buy real estate, to get that longterm because real estate, traditional real estate is very competitive.

And you just don’t get the cashflow you see in land. So let’s use land as our main income source and then invest it in properties. I think that as a whole is such a solid strategy.

Ron: I thought the, uh, the interesting thing she said, Dan was, uh, like the money, the mindset shift around money. I think that’s such an important thing.

Like, um, a couple of years from now, you’re not going to be, you’re going to like scoff over a million dollars. Like that’s, that’s the mind it’s going to keep on growing. Like that mindset just keeps on growing. Um, and I think surrounding yourself with people like that, everything like that is really important.

You said a lot about like the community. Are you in that accountability group? Is that correct? Talk about that little, so within our discord community, we also, if you’re a member, you get into an accountability group with a smaller group of people that are all kind of on the same path, the same journey there started around the same time, similar experiences.

Talk about like that accountability group, what it’s done for you, how it’s helped you grow.

Shelby: Well, there’s a ton of people in the, uh, accountability group, uh, all from all kind of from the same stretch of. Land, I guess we all started fairly early and around the same time, but there’s also a wide, a very vast differences in like our, our experiences and land.

Like, we have people who are doing 600, 000 bills that are turning into a million dollars. Um, and just kind of learning how people are. Doing in their land business, what they’re doing, what they’re seeing, what areas they’re focusing on, um, and new strategies that they’re kind of testing out and trying, uh, have been super helpful for my land business and trying new things.

Like, I think I brought the door dash thing to the accountability group. Um, and. People are always trying new things, learning new things. And it’s been super helpful to learn in a tight knit community where you’re not afraid to share things because you know, you won’t stab each other in the back. Um, all about what you’re doing in land.

Dan: What about like the evolution of that group? Cause we try to pair people up, Ron and I handpicked these groups and we’re like, we think they’re on the same page as them and they’re sending about the same mail and they’re dedicated. They want us to quit their, all that stuff. And we handpicked groups and kind of put them to, so everyone’s kind of in the same boat.

Relatively. Talk about the evolution of that because obviously when you started the accountability group, a lot of the people in the group probably weren’t doing many deals. They’re newer. How’s that evolution looked for that group?

Shelby: Yeah, it’s kind of crazy to see, uh, the amount, the dollar amount of deals.

Starting out, I feel like a lot of us were doing like buy for 20, sell for 40 to 60. And now you see at least every accountability group call I’ve been on, somebody’s making 100k bills like every other week. So, it’s kind of crazy to see how that’s changed. Uh, with everyone,

Ron: that’s amazing. And like, you’re tackling that buy for 150, whatever it was, sell for 400.

Michael’s doing that buy for a hundred. You said there’s a 600, 000 purchase like these. That’s what we are really trying to push as Dan is like these bigger deals. And the nice thing about like having a small group like that, there’s obviously money outside of that group as well, is you guys are tackling big deals together.

Is that right?

Shelby: Yeah, Some people in the group are funding other people’s deals in the group. A lot of people working together. It’s really cool.

Dan: Yeah. The size of the group, their size of the deals in general in the community. I blow my, like Matt last night, he’s in the group, right? He brought me like a 900, 000 opportunity or something.

I was like, goodness, this is getting crazy, but it’s, I love to see it. That’s the way we’re pushing for things.

Ron: Big deals, big projects, everything like that. And that’s the coolest thing is like people building relationships, like. No one thought like there’s people coming in with 5, 000 who joined this group.

They’re very active in the group and then they get a deal. That’s 700, 000 purchase price. Um, and we put our trust into them. Like that is the amazing thing about it. Um, but, uh, that, that’s really cool. And that group doesn’t have any failed people. I don’t think anyone like isn’t doing thing. I think the motivation.

You guys are motivating each other and like maybe competing, uh, subconsciously almost like who’s going to get the next million or who’s going to get the million dollar deal, like anything like that. I think it is like that in that group, which is really cool. What kind of advice would you give Shelby, someone looking into this business?

Let’s say they have 5, 000 saved. They have a nine to five, very, very similar in terms of you at a nine to five starting out, they have 5, 000 saved. Um, they’re thinking about land, investing, whatever it is. What kind of advice would you give someone just starting out?

Shelby: I’d say that it works. Just give it time, um, and see what areas you need improvement on.

Do you need improvement on yourself? I do need improvement on maybe your mail price. Um, it does work. It just may take time while you’re learning. First little bit. Um, but your first deal will come and then that first deal will make up for even if you sent 10, 000 millards, it’ll make up for that before you even got a deal.

Ron: Absolutely. That’s really, that’s good advice. Like it, it, it works guys. It’s a, be a, be a part of our weekly calls with weekly calls on YouTube or zoom. Uh, so kind of seeing that in action, we try to give a lot of free value here. Um, any other questions for Shelby, Dan, this was a really, really valuable.

Dan: No, I think, I think this was really valuable to people just starting out and people just, you know, hitting the ground running, sending mail these days, everyone runs into obstacles eventually.

And I always want to Hound that and touch on that point. Like we did with Shelby earlier, because overcoming those is just. Any business you’re going to run into him. So it’s important to have that in your mind going forward. I think.

Ron: Dan, she said, uh, before he ended Dan, she said six months, like that is a lot of time, six months.

And now she’s making 300, 000 on a property on the backend of that six months. But if she would have quit month two, she would have quit month three of like struggle instead of figuring, trying to figure stuff out, like. That she’s working her marketing jobs though. She’s still a Pinterest wherever she was.

Um, but, uh, it’s the fortitude and like the ability to fight through those, uh, tough times is what makes everyone in this business.

Dan: And that’s, what’s so important about the community too. I think it’s just when you’re going through those hard times, seeing other people’s success, it sucks. I’m sure. But you’re like, okay, if Joe, if Jack’s doing it over here, then I, why, why can’t I get a deal this big or whatever it is, and just seeing that success.

Continuing to move forward, continuing to put one foot forward after another, because eventually you hit small win after small win and small win. Shelby didn’t think she was going to have a million, like have a million dollar business two years ago. And now after small win, small win, sent your mail, got your first deal, got a big deal and you just keep these, keep compounding and then eventually you just believe in it, believe in the business, know what you’re doing and it just, you have a million dollar business after that.

Really, really good episode. Thank you for joining us, Shelby, as always. Thank you for joining. Please do us a huge favor and like and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else.

Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.