Land Investing Online

In the most recent episode of the Real Estate Investing Podcast, hosts Daniel and Ron Apke dive into the impacts of rising interest rates on the land flipping industry.

They reflect on how, two years ago, it was possible to sell land quickly and easily, often without even including pictures. However, with today’s higher interest rates, the market dynamics have shifted.

While higher interest rates can complicate the selling process, they also make it easier to acquire properties as fewer people are competing with cash offers. 

Dan & Ron state that the key to success in any market is not to get bogged down by external factors like interest rates, but to focus on internal factors such as improving sales skills, pricing strategies, and market analysis.

Watch or listen to the full episode below to find out how to navigate the high interest real estate climate & continue profiting off land flipping!

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Ron: Because let’s back up 24 months ago, Dan, I could put any crap piece of land on the market with any pictures and it would sell. It’s not the same today.

Dan: Low interest rates. There’s more money flowing around the market in general, so you’re going to sell properties quicker. There’s also more competition though during those times, but at the same time, I don’t think it matters as much as before.

People think in terms of moving away,

Ron: but reasons people don’t get into this business. Some people say it’s too saturated. Some people say it’s the interest rates can’t do this with high interest rates or something like that. Seems like all noise I think.

Dan: The things you should be looking at are the internal things.

Why do you actually think you can’t do it? What’s actually really going on? Why aren’t you actually getting deals? Oh, maybe you suck on the phone and focus on what you can do better. podcast. Today’s topic. We’re discussing how interest rates affect the land flipping industry. I’m your host, Daniel Apke, joined again by my brother and business partner, Ron Apke.

And that’s the top, uh, top question we get is, you know, rising interest rates, the last 12 months that we’ve seen, are they coming down? How’s that affect land? Just interest rates in general, uh, are, it’s an uncertain future, but you know, housing, the housing market saw this so strongly last 12 months.

Obviously the interest rates reflect, uh, The economy as a total, but in this episode, we’re going to talk about how it actually relates to the land flipping world.

Ron: Yeah, absolutely. And interest rates, they touch everything. I feel like like anything where transactions are happening, where money is moving like high interest rates, higher interest rates relative to where we were 24 months ago is going to affect everything.

And that’s where we can get into this episode is. How are they affecting our business? How are they affecting our members business? Um, if you’re getting into land flipping right now, how is that going to look? Uh, I think it’s something that people overthink sometimes at the end of the day, Dan.

Dan: Yeah, I think so too.

And, uh, there’s always going to be some sort of external factors and a lot of people overthink those and they delay getting started or, uh, maybe one mailer, they have no results and they blame it on the external factors for no results. And really other people are getting deals. Overthinking is a big, uh, You know, thing in this business and entrepreneurship.

Yeah. In general, just because people are looking for reasons. If something doesn’t work reasons, if something works reasons, which is good in general and in theory, but it comes to an extent, you know, there’s businesses that are made during recessions and there’s businesses that are made, um, not in recessions.

And I think the key thing here we’re discussing is overall, just what we’ve seen the last 24 months, whether it’s a good thing or bad thing. You can always succeed in both sides.

Ron: Yeah. And I think the number one thing that comes to mind when we’re talking about higher interest rates. is, are you able to sell land?

Who’s buying land? Are they buying with interest rates? Are they buying with cash or with loans? Are they buying it with cash? How are they buying land? And that is the top question. I think when interest rates are higher, when it’s a little tougher to sell land, I think marketing, I think being on the right places becomes more important.

Cause let’s back up 24 months ago, Dan, I could put any crap piece of land on the market for not any price, but with any pictures and it would sell. It’s not the same today.

Dan: No, absolutely not. And it’s not only, uh, now sometimes you got to cut the price to 80, 90 percent of market value to sell it quick.

Then you could be priced at 105, 110%. And still, if it was good land and sell it because you know, in 90 days, that 105%, it’s going to be 125%. And that’s just how things were trending. And it’s not only that it’s the speed of the sale as well.

Ron: And interest rates are going to affect, they affect everything.

Like they affect both sides of it. They don’t just affect your ability to sell. They, I think they improve your ability to acquire because less money is circulating, you’re offering cash to the sellers. So that’s one of the things like it flips when interest rates are really low. It is a little harder to acquire a lot easier to sell.

When interest rates are up a little bit, it is easier to acquire. People need more money, more there’s tougher times out there. And then it might become a little more difficult to sell. So it’s really I think tough, different times just make you adjust your business. Like maybe with lower interest rates, quicker moving on the sell side, you need to be more aggressive with your offers versus here.

Like Dan said, off putting 80 to 80, 90 percent sale price is probably what you need to look at.

Dan: Yeah. And also we need to talk about a little bit why Um, how the interest rate of correlates with land prices because in real estate, if the interest rates drop, I don’t know what prime is right now. Let’s just say 7%.

Yeah. Um, if it’s 7 percent right now and then drops to 2. 5 or 3 percent tomorrow, the price of houses are going to dramatically increase like that. And then vice versa, if it goes from 7 percent to 12 percent over the next few months, you’ll see the prices of home drop because there’s going to be less buyers on in the market and less money flowing in the market.

So the demand is going to go, the overall demand is going to go down for land. It’s not as volatile as that. It does correlate, but you will not see a steep of an increase or a steep as a decrease back based on that. Because one of the biggest reasons for that is a good majority of pieces of land are bought.

Uh, in cash, a lot of land deals are cash and there’s not really traditional financing for land like there is. And you know, there’s no Freddie Mac or anything loan for land specifically. So it’s a whole different game. It’s not as volatile and it’s a, it’s a big cash business also.

Ron: And you are never getting 3%.

Loans on land if like you’re just getting a loan

Dan: when when houses were three percent land loans were eight to ten percent

Ron: Yeah, exactly. And now it’s like whatever. I don’t know exactly what it is.

Dan: Unless you bundled it in a housing package.

Ron: Yeah, if you’re bundling a housing package you’re building or something That’s a lot different because then that turns into a construction loan and the land is just part of it But like dan said, it’s it’s not as volatile because how much is done with cash?

It’s not that easy to get landlords in general. Not saying you can’t do it, it’s not as easy, uh, because it’s not a primary residence, it’s a less liquid asset for a bank. It’s a less known asset for a bank to be able to appraise it accurately. Uh, so loans are just 50%. I don’t know. What are we selling?

We’re probably selling 50 to 60% of our deals right now with cash, I would think.

Dan: Yeah, I think it’s about 50. And our business is sub. And we do some more expensive one, but for the most part, it’s. you know, 40, 000 sale price to 200, 000 for a lot of them. Once you get obviously in a million, 2 million, 5 million, it’s probably, you’re going to see a higher rate of loans for sure.

I would imagine. Yep. I’m not certain on that, but I would imagine. Um, so that’s one thing to note though.

Ron: So if you were starting down in this business, like in this market versus a fat, like what do you, what would you prefer as far as high interest rates or would you just not even think about it? High interest rates, low interest rates, like knowing what you know now, like what would you prefer starting in?

Dan: I don’t think it matters. I mean Low interest rates. There’s more money flowing around the market in general. So you’re going to sell properties quicker. There’s also more competition though during those times because there’s more people with more money and cash is moving and businesses are doing better a lot of times.

Um, I don’t think, I don’t think you need, you think about this too much. Like it’s the most common, one of the most common asked questions, but at the same time, I don’t think it matters as much as people think in terms of moving land.

Ron: And what we tell you guys to do is analyze the market for the market, analyze the last three months of what’s happening in the market.

And that’s how you choose decisions. And I’m not talking about interest rate market. I’m talking about the market. You’re doing deals in the market. You’re trying to do deals and analyze it. If a market’s moving fast, I can be more aggressive with my pricing. If the market’s moving slow, I need to buy cheaper.

I need to get better deals. And that’s really. When you really break it down, like that’s how you get it. Like interest rates are all built into all those numbers. When I look at any market, if I’m looking at market in Cincinnati, Ohio, outside of Cincinnati, Ohio, rural five acres, what it’s selling for it, like I’m going to look what it’s selling for, how long it’s taking to sell.

And that’s going to give me the insight on how to do this business. Um, you think it’s rates are going down or anything?

Dan: I mean, I’m not, I’m not in that space. We have real estate, obviously, and we continue to buy real estate and we’re selling one right now as well. So it does affect our business from that, but I don’t really care.

Eventually it’s going to go down. They don’t know the future of it. Um, I’m not here to really talk about the prediction, but I mean, eventually they will go down.

Ron: Yeah. You, you would think at some point, um,

Dan: Will they go down to the 3 percent ever? They probably shouldn’t. No one’s making money at 3 percent loans.

But, you know, 5 loans. Probably it would go down.

Ron: I think everyone said it would go down in 2024. It doesn’t seem to be happening then. Um, but at the end of the day, like Dan said, or like we both kind of said, that’s not really something that should be top of mind for you when you’re doing this business, land deals are done in cash.

If you’re getting funding, that’s cash funding for the deals, unless you’re using a bank or something, which we don’t really. Push that much when you’re first starting, but it’s a cash business. It really is.

Dan: Yeah, it is. And also a lot of people buying land and this affects the market as well. They do first houses too, but mainly residential houses are bought for primary residents.

Like Ron was saying for land, a good portion of the buyers are also investors and they see this as a hedge against. Uh, inflation and a hedge against, you know, the economy in general. So there are a lot of investors out there buying land on the outside. Not only are they buying it to hunt and, uh, camp on or to have fun or to farm or whatever you’re selling your land, whatever that buyer is doing, they also see it as a longterm asset because land historically appreciates 11 percent and when the, when the, you know, housing markets down 20 percent land might be pretty stable at zero or two minus 2%, um, and vice versa as well.

So it’s a very, very. A stable asset to hold. And I think that’s why it brings so many cash buyers as well.

Ron: Yeah, I agree. It’s a lot of wealthy, wealthy people own land and they’re just holding it just to hold it.

Dan: You can make more houses, but you can’t really make more land. Like you can have a five acre plot and then get a bunch of 0.

25 acres out of it and continue to build houses and make the lot smaller and smaller, start building up and you can build residencies, but you can’t get more land. So if you can get that space on earth, there’s a limit to that. There’s a limit to it, obviously. And, and that’s one of the appealing things to investors as well.

Ron: Yeah, I agree. I mean, going forward. If you guys are looking to get in this business, like there’s quite like, what are the important questions you’re asking or like, because like you said at the beginning, Dan, there’s like limiting things and this is, or I don’t want to say excuses, but reasons people don’t get into this business.

Some people say it’s too saturated. Some people say it’s, uh, the interest rates can’t do this with high interest rates or something like that. It’s just all, it seems like all noise. I think

Dan: it, the external factors, a lot of them are noise and there’s going to be. that in great economies, there’s going to be challenges.

And in bad economies, there’s going to be a lot of challenges as well. And, you know, the external factors are going to come and go it’s consistency and it’s doing this business and, you know, doing to the best, uh, and beating out your competition, essentially. It’s like any business it’s proven. There are thousands and thousands of other people doing it.

It’s not like you’re starting some startup and it’s. You know, you, you don’t know if it works or not. This is a proven business model that does work and anything else. Like the things you should be looking at are the internal things. Why do you actually think you can’t do it and go after that instead of all these external trying to blame what’s actually really going on.

Why aren’t you actually getting deals? Oh, maybe you suck on the phone. You got to improve your sales skills. Maybe you’re not picking up, you know, the phone on the first time you got to get hot, get an outsource company to answer the calls and then you call them back. There’s so many other things to analyze your pricing, uh, your market selection, all these other things, but the ones you want to avoid in general.

Are the external factors because those come and go stay consistent be better than competition and focus on what you can do better.

Ron: Yeah. There’s a lot of controllables in this business. There are things that you can’t control for sure. Um, but if you focus on the controllables, that’s how you’re going to grow this business from 0 to a million dollars, whatever your goal is really fast.

Um, because it’s just, it’s a waste of time. A lot of times worrying about that noise, but any other than that, Dan, you have anything else for this?

Dan: No, I don’t just don’t if you guys are looking to get in or you’re in and Uh, whatever your situation is, don’t overthink these external factors. Like, like we said, they come and go over time and strong businesses.

Um, I was looking at a business, you know, in Cincinnati, they’ve been around since 1805. It’s like those external factors come and go, but they’re such a solid business. They’ve been through the recession. They’ve been through the great depression. They’ve been through both world wars, 1800s. Uh, but All of that stuff comes and goes and just focusing on being the best business and providing the most value on each side is most important.

Ron: A hundred percent. Other than that, guys, if you guys are listening on Spotify or Apple, share this with a friend, uh, leave us a review. We really appreciate that. If you guys are watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button, leave us a comment. If you have any other episode recommendations other than that, thank you so much.

We’ll see you next time.

Dan: Thanks for joining guys. As always, thank you for joining. Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.

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