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Land Investing Online

Top Marketing Strategies for land in 2024 | Apke Brothers ft. Matt Pamfilis

In this episode, the Apke Brothers are joined in the studio by guest and fellow land flipper Matthew Pamfilis!

Part one of this podcast can be found here.

Marketing for Land

Dan, Ron & Matt discuss their preferred marketing strategies in which to acquire land, and which have found them the most success.

According to all three, their experience with blind offers has been the most successful method of acquiring land. Not only is it a great way to get leads, but the leads that come in are better quality.

Cold calling, text messaging can also be used in conjunction with sending blind offers as it will only strengthen your marketing strategy. 

They also mention the importance of due diligence and not spending too much time on bad deals. 

In order for Matt to reach his 2024 goal of making $1 Million, he plans to increase the amount of blind offers he sends out, and to take on bigger deals such as subdividing.

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Listen or watch the full episode below ⬇️ to hear the strategies Matt plans to implement into his own land flipping business to reach his $1 Million a year goal!

Listen to the Podcast Here

View Transcript here

Matt: Like I remember my first mailer, it was a terrible county in Maryland. It was all wetlands. I’m like, these are, this is awesome. I’m actually like getting calls back. This is real. Honestly, like none of them were good for that particular mailer. I got a lot of calls back.

Dan: This is stuff that’s been, especially cold calling, cold calling has been around since the phone was invented.

You know, it’s just, it’s something that’s been around. It’s not going away.

Ron: I had so many people come in and like if one other person is in the county or something like that, and we, we talked about it a lot of the main objections.

Matt: Yeah. Like, no, it doesn’t really scare me because, you know, competition means that it’s a healthy market.

Yeah. Um, so no.

Dan: I don’t open up any of my influence in my house.

Ron: If you think it’s a bill, you open an IRS.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. I’m your host, Ron Apke. Today we are with Daniel Apke and Matt P. How do you say your last name, Matt? Pamfilis . I didn’t want to butcher it there, but today we were talking about it all about building a million dollar a year land flipping business.

It sounds more difficult than I think then it actually is Dan. We talked about this quite a bit I think but just what a million dollar a year business looks like So let’s first talk about guys, blind offers in terms of acquiring. Let’s start with the acquisitions. What does it look like from an acquisitions perspective?

How much mail are we sending? Dan, you want to kind of take that away and kind of explain just the blind offer method that we do.

Dan: Yeah. So typically, and Matt can touch on this after, but typically we like our bread and butter from day one has been blind offers, so we’re sending out. Two vacant landowners, a blind offer, which essentially says, Hey Matt, I want to buy your five acres for 55, 000 in Hamilton County, Ohio.

There’s that. And then there’s neutral letters. And there’s a few other methods as well that we use, but blind offers has been the bed and butter butter. It’s been the best ROI. It’s been easier on the processes. Like we’re talking about the infrastructure. You need to build a million dollar business in this episode.

And blind offers really, really minimizes your, your overhead in terms of like your callbacks and taxes. So blind offers has always been the best ROI for us, Ron.

Ron: Yeah. Well, I’ll dumb it down a little bit. So we are buying land at 40 to 45 percent of market value. So we buy for 40, 000, sell for a hundred.

Typically it’s flipping as is sometimes we do subdivide stuff like that. Um, so yeah, we send those letters out, everything like that. What’s your experience been with blind offers, Matt? Is that, are you sending any other types of letters out or are you just sending blind offers right now?

Matt: Yeah. it’s just blind offers right now.

So that’s where I would say like 90 percent of our deals are coming from. Uh, we get some from various other marketing channels, but it’s a majority from a direct mail and these are all like very hot leads. Um, you know, they’re inbound, so they’re already, you know, they got our letter, uh, they understand what price we’re, we’re willing to offer, uh, and they have some motivation of wanting to move forward.

So, um, those are the best leads that I’m, I’m seeing.

Ron: And Dan, I remember when we were doing like when we were around a million dollars a year. Like, you’ll still be like, if you’re doing blind offers and doing it the way we teach it, like, you’ll still be like not bored at times. I don’t want to say bored, but it’s not like you’re going to be busy and crazy busy all the time.

If you’re doing the right size deals. Right?

Dan: Yeah, exactly. Where you do get a little busy is when like the acquisitions just build up over time in terms of your funnel, like the interested people, the 90 day follow up and, and once you start building that pipeline, you can get more busy, but it was hard, like multimillion dollar business.

Uh, it was hard to keep a salesperson busy with blind offers. So we started implementing cold calling and we, he was calling 90 people a day. An American six figure employee. We had calling, you know, 90 phone calls a day on top of. You know, the 30, 40, 000 mailers we were sending. It was really hard to keep a full time salesperson busy.

Ron: It’s difficult. Cause like you send 20, 000 mailers a month, you get 120 to 180 calls somewhere in there. So it’s not a crazy amount of leads. They will stack up, but for a full time person for a full time salesperson, if you’re just doing blind offers, it’s probably. You need to spend, you need to send 30 to 40 000 a month, I think.

Dan: You need a lot. And that’s why you need to get texting in. But that’s what’s so good about LAND is because you can, like the blind offers in general, you can have a full time job and do this and make seven figures. Like, were we still working when, I know I wasn’t, were you still working when we were making seven figures?

Ron: No, not really. I mean, towards the beginning, maybe a little bit, but we’re doing, we started making 80, 90, 100, 000 a month. And I don’t know, I was doing a lot of other stuff and not just LAND.

Dan: Yeah, exactly. What’s your experience with blind offers, Matt?

Matt: Um, yeah. Like I said, that’s definitely like our main, uh, form of marketing at the moment, but we also do SMS because like you said, um, you know, it’s not really too time intensive for, uh, you know, direct mail.

There’s the front end of pricing mailers and getting everything prepped, but then once you send it out, there’s a lag period of, you know, 10 days before it starts hitting. So like within that time period, unless you like have a lot of mailers that are. You know, you’re sending consistently where you’re starting to get more inbound calls.

There are a lot of lulls. So um, like I’ve, I do SMS just to keep myself busy and uh, make sure that we’re getting more leads in and maximizing all of our data.

Ron: So if someone’s just starting this business, Dan, would you even have them mess with SMS or something? Let’s say they have 20, 000 in marketing money.

 

Dan: No, not if they have 20, 000, the less money you have. The more you want to focus on SMS and cold calling, the more money you have, the less you want to focus on SMS and cold calling. You want to do blind offers. That’s just how it is. I mean, you know, you want to get the most return for the least amount of time.

Um, it’s, it’s not even close.

Ron: Yeah. And we’re talking to him in this episode about making a million dollars in a year. So you’re starting right now. If you have funds behind you, like there is no reason just not to, you don’t want to over send when you’re first starting to, we see that mistake quite a bit from people who jump in and send 12, 000 mailers their first month.

And then they’re like, okay, they don’t know what to do when they get these leads. They don’t know how to close deals.

Dan: Yeah. And you’re sending 7, 500 right now a month. Yes. And your plans to make seven figures. Yes, exactly. That’s like, you don’t need to just jump in and, and Matt’s so aggressive with all the Absolutely.

His leads and everything. And that’s what you want when you want to be still aggressive. When you jump to 15, 20, 000 mailers like that, you’re going to have an influx of leads coming in and you stop looking at every one that gets unique and you let some slip through the cracks and it just happens by nature.

You want to kind of ease into that, I think.

Ron: Yeah. So what do you think like a starting point is in terms of mail per month? I think 5, 000 is good. You agree?

Matt: Uh, yeah, I would say that’s a pretty good amount

Ron: Yeah. So 5, 000, you’re going to get 35, 40 calls a month. Um, you should get two deals, three deals a month.

I would think some deal some months, like we talked about last episode, some months you might have one deal. Some months you might have zero deals on 5, 000 mailers. But at scale, it’s going to work like that. And then as you learn the learning curve and you, I mean, you’re just 12 months in the learning curve is so steep at the beginning where it’s like, at first you’re like, I don’t know what I’m doing.

I don’t know how to evaluate a deal. And the biggest thing I see with people just starting, which is fine, is that you spend so much money on bad deals. They don’t know how to throw out bad deals, but as that learning curve goes, you can be so much more efficient with your time, right?

Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I didn’t know if you’re talking to me or Matt there, Matt, you want to take that?

Matt: Yeah, I agree with that entirely. I think it’s when you’re getting started with anything, it’s like you put this one deal on a pedestal and it’s like, I really want to make this happen because like, I remember my first mailer, it was a terrible County. In Maryland, it was all wetlands. I’m like, these are, this is awesome.

I’m actually like getting calls back. This is real. Yeah. It’s like direct. I’d never done direct mail. So like, that was cool to see this new marketing channel work, but I tried to make every single deal happen. And honestly, like none of them were good for that particular mailer. I got a lot of calls back, but, um, I would definitely agree with you by saying like, you Do the due diligence as quickly as possible because then you can start to get better at due diligence and like, there’s only a few things that you’re really considering when looking at a property, like you guys do the calls and like, you look at hundreds of deals like every quarter.

Right. But you know, when you’re just starting out, like there’s a couple of things that matter and like, just, you know, is it too sloped? Is it too wet? You know, and the utilities, but once you figure that out and can parse through deals more quickly, you can like, More quickly, get rid of the bad things and focus on the good.

Dan: Yeah. People get way, way too hung up on these deals too. I see it all the time. And then some people will bring it to a call and then we’ll be like, this is awful. The slope, whatever it is. And then you’ll see it on a call, like a month later, they’re still trying to push it there. And it’s like sometimes, but I like that mentality too, because they are being aggressive and they’re taking every lead seriously.

And they want to make, we were like that at first, like a hundred percent. So I understand where they’re coming from, but it’s the energy. Like sometimes you just need to put that lead away, go to the next and focus on that. There’s so much land out there. How many parcels are on.

Ron: 158 million, right? We just bought them all, right?

Yeah, we just bought them all with the lamp. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think that’s a huge key, but it’s such a learning process when you guys are going through your first, second, third deals as you’re doing due diligence, stuff like that. So it is a huge learning process. But two, three months down the line, you’re going to be like, why was I looking at a deal for a week, two weeks?

Some people let deals hang on. And we cut that out probably six months into our business. When we first started this business was we really focused on like, okay, let’s get rid of crap leads, crap deals. And Daniel was doing the sales for us then. Uh, and that really helped us scale. It’s just like not have any like maybe deals, like it’s, what do we, What, what moves the deal forward or what just cancels the deal out and one of those decisions need to be made, either something moving forward or something stopping.

But Dan, what about the, uh, sorry, go ahead, Matt.

Matt: Sorry. I would justsay like one caveat to that. Go for it. That like. I had a deal that we did this past year, uh, and it looked landlocked like from the surface, but upon further due diligence, like I found out that there was an easement and we ended up getting a great deal on it from the buy side with the seller and we made like 80 grand on it.

So. So like due diligence is really important and you can find diamonds in the rough, but like not spending too much time on like bad deals is like the main takeaway in my opinion from that.

Ron: So what are your thoughts on like the other acquisition methods, Dan, like we talked about our salesperson was cold calling some, we talked about text messaging.

What are your thoughts on the other acquisition methods?

Dan: I mean, this is stuff that’s been, especially cold calling, cold calling has been around since the phone was invented. You know, it’s just, it’s something that’s been around. It’s not going away there. You can definitely, the name of the game, I’ve said this a million times is to get Land under market value, right?

To get a 40, 50, 60%, whatever your business model is. And you can do that through just reaching out the landowners. You can reach out the landowners through, like we’re saying, a blind offer. So mail, you have texting, you have, people are doing Google PPC, you have SM or a cold calling and all of those. The pillars in my mind are mail, SMS, and cold calling.

Those are like the three pillars that I I’ve just seen very, very sustainable from this. I’m not saying Google PPC and those other methods can’t work. I just haven’t seen it. to that extent. And those are the, like, I think like there are people stuck at three, four or 500, 000 a year of gross profit and they just don’t know how to get to that next hump.

And sometimes like I asked them, I said, do you have time? Like how much time do you have? How aggressive are you? And if they’re, they have a good amount of time and they want to put everything they have into it, I would get them into followup texting. Like that’s the first thing we do. And then you can take that.

And I think you can double your business off just taking those. Text messages or the data that you already have from mail and just implementing it and do your SMS campaigns follow ups.

Ron: Yeah, so you guys have you have cold text or your follow up text? I think when building a million dollar your business I guess not like we said we can do it with purely blind offers, but sending a follow up text as well Have you done those Matt as far as follow up text?

Are you doing that right now?

Matt: So we, uh, generally our process is to send mail and then we’ll follow up with the text just to say, Hey, did you get an, get our, uh, you know, offer letter. And again, we’re doing this at a mass mass scale, like it’s not hundreds of thousands of months, but like I have a template and it’s, you know, we reach out to these people and the same kind of messaging, just like, Hey, did you get our message?

Just another touch point. Yeah. Um, yeah, we’re definitely doing that.

Dan: That’s what it’s all about. He said another touch point. Did you notice that verbiage that he used? That’s all it is. Like the more we can touch these landowners, the more eventually you’re going to hit them and they’re going to Have a life circumstance come up where they can’t sell their land or they need to sell their land or whatever it is Like you hit them now doesn’t mean they’re not gonna want to sell in a month two weeks six months Whatever it is.

Ron: And some people come into this business and like it’s easy at first Maybe they get a deal a really good deal their first two thousand mail or something like that make fifty thousand dollars And then they kind of lose that urge because they think every deal is gonna be that easy You need to be fighting for deals, whether it’s follow up texting, multiple touch points has been a thing in sales.

You talked about sale, all these things being around forever. Multiple touch points is a real thing. And the more you touch people, the more you have a chance of getting a deal.

Dan: For a long time, people thought like land was the exception. You don’t get multiple touch points. That’s not true at all. Like you keep touching these people and things change.

It’s the same reason why you’re getting deals in some of these counties in South Carolina, where I’ve seen five other people get deals. You sent mail, you had a good price. You’re aggressive. You’re good on the phones. They’ve seen five other letters. Those people, 10 other letters. Some of the times, you know, why are they selling to you?

It’s the right time. You touch them at the right time. You’re following up. Everything leads to that sale.

Ron: Is it, is that ever scary, Matt? When you see like, cause a lot of people coming in, like see. Someone else, uh, in South Carolina in a region they’re in, like, does that ever scare you seeing other people sending mail to certain areas that you are in?

Matt: No, not really. I mean, like I’ve wholesaled houses in Tampa, Florida. Like this is a really densely densely populated area and like we can still do deals. So, I mean, it’s nice that this business model doesn’t have like an insane amount of competition currently. So. Like, no, it doesn’t really scare me because, you know, competition means that it’s a healthy market.

Yeah. Um, so no.

Ron: I had so many people come in and like, that is, if one other person is in the county or something like that. And we, we talked about it a lot. It’s one of the main objections. Yeah. Yeah. People in like, we saw one county in Georgia where we had three members send mail to within like two weeks and they all got deals.

Dan: Yeah. Shelby, Chris, and another guy. And they all three, I think Chris got three deals. Shelby got two. And I can’t remember the third, but they all got deals. Literally within a few weeks still. Yeah.

Ron: You have different acreages. You have different price points when you’re pricing out, man, there’s so many different thing.

Dan: People don’t open every envelope either.

Like I don’t open up any of my envelopes in my house.

Ron: If you think it’s a bill, you open an IRS. But going to the, like the disposition side, so selling the land. So if you’re trying to make a million dollars, I think 25, 000 is pretty average for profit, Dan. So if we say that that’s really only 40 deals a year to make a million dollars, not some crazy amount of money, 40 deals to make how much a million dollars, 25, 000 each, which is how many a month. 3. 3.3.

Dan: So a little three to four deals. Is that doable in this business, Matt?

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I’m not currently doing that at the moment, but I mean, we intend on getting there. I would say.

Dan: You’ve seen the months where you’ve done it though. Yeah. If you stayed consistent at those months, obviously. Did you have two in a row?

Two deals in a row? Uh, two, six figure months in a row.

Matt: Oh no, no, we, uh, no, we did, uh, I think like 60 something in November, a hundred and I don’t have the exact numbers offhand, but a hundred on December and then I think we’ll do like 85.

Dan: That’s very good. So you’re getting there. You’re very close. And you’re doing that primarily through blind.

So, that’s what I also wanted to ask. So, you’re doing a lot of blind offers, 7500, and you’re doing follow up. Are you doing any cold text without offers at all, anywhere? Like your first touch is a cold text?

Matt: Uh, no, I don’t think so. Like, I don’t send an actual offer to them. It’s just Hey, Landon. Hey, John.

This is Matthew. To get them talking. Yeah. So, we just get them talking, and then if we can get them on the phone, that’s ideal. Like, I just hit a, um, I did a cold text on a county And we’re going to lock the deal up today, hopefully. Um, like he didn’t respond to my letter, but he responded to my text.

Dan: So who knows if he saw your letter connected?

Um, that’s what you never, that’s so hard to track. Mail’s hard to track. And does that ever kill you? That kills me. It always killed me with mail. How hard it is to just track. Like you can track your calls, but you don’t know open rate. It’s like when you send out a text, it gives you all these different data points.

And with mail, you’re like, did my mail even go to these people’s houses? We’re trusting on the USPS government, uh, send our mail. Um, and it’s just a bit, it’s hard to track that data. And that’s what I like about texting too. It’s like, uh, On off switch, you can just really put on any time. So what

Ron: does that deal look like that you’re closing up from text?

Matt: My offer, uh, based on my original pricing was like 27, 500 was the offer price. He said 30, 000 and it’s done. Um, and I’m, I’m just going to put a 60 day closing period on it and try and resell it. So. I think it would be like 50 to 55 K as a resale. So, I mean, that, those numbers make sense for a double close for sure.

Um, there’s also timber on it. So like, it’s a good investment for somebody. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Do you ever get a, uh, have you ever gotten or seen a timber appraisal? Like a cruise, like a timber cruise.

Matt: Is that what it’s called? It’s called a cruise. Yeah. I, um, I was looking at a 600 acre property.

I remember that. Yeah. We, we were, that’s what it was.

Dan: Right. I remember that.

Matt: And that was actually to go back to our original point of trying to make deals happen. I definitely spent a lot of time on that one because It’s like, okay, if I can get this for 1. 5, we can sell it for 3. 2. So I definitely had that kind of, uh, putting the deal on the pedestal.

Um, it ended up not working out cause he wouldn’t accept a price that made sense. But, uh, he got a cruise on it because he was like. Wanting to determine what the exact timber value was.

Dan: Smart, smart, interesting. What, um, when you’re say texting, um, let’s go into that a little bit. Cause I want to see what like, cause we’re talking about building a million dollar business, right?

So what is your VA doing? You have one employee right now, correct? Yeah. What’s he doing in this process?

Matt: Um, so he’s responsible for handling mostly everything in launch control, um, texting platform. Yeah, it’s our texting platform. So basically he’s going to, you know, upload our lists to launch control, uh, start sending batches of text messages, handle all inbound leads, uh, properly disposition them.

Meaning like, is it a hot lead? Is it a warm lead? Do we have to nurture it? Does, do we need to put it on a drip campaign? Do I need to tag Matt in this so that he follows up because I don’t know how to respond to it. Um, he does that kind of stuff. And if it’s, uh, like a warmer hot lead, then he’ll push it to air table, uh, our CRM.

And then, you know, we’ll just continue the process of like doing due diligence on the property and reaching out to the seller and trying to lock it up. But he’s more so involved on preliminary outreach to these property owners and then getting them warm enough where they can be pushed to me where I can make a follow up call.

Um, but I’m excited for this new virtual assistant because he’s very, uh, experienced. So he’s motivated. Yeah. He wants to like start a, you know, a division of cold callers within the company, which is cool to like take that initiative. I mean, I just hired him yesterday.

Dan: He didn’t have himself there. Come on.

It’s cool to have that mission though.

Matt: Yeah, it’s cool. But um yeah, he’s, he’s.

Dan: He’s good for sure. Yeah. I want to talk. So Matt’s getting like, that’s Matt’s plans to hit a million dollars this year using texting, using blind offers and everything kind of in combination with each other. When Ron and I hit a million dollars our first time, we were only doing blind offers.

We didn’t even do not neutral letters. We just did blind offers. So for the purpose of this episode, let’s talk about our infrastructure there. Um, because we, the first person we hired, we had a VA kind of come on this almost the same time as a transaction coordinator. Which were two, in my opinion, looking back, like I would do the same thing over again from that perspective.

Ron: Yeah. so we had a VA who was going to take little things off our plates, scrubbing, stuff like that. And we’re probably sending eight to 10, 000 mailers a month. I’ll think of this time, Dan, we started that and the transaction coordinator was just, I didn’t want to do that anymore. I didn’t want to do due diligence.

I didn’t want to talk to title companies. I remember the first hire, the first hire American W2 hire. It’s a difficult hire, like mentally, I think it is like you’re bringing them on, but how much it took off our plates was unbelievable. You could focus on sales more. I could focus on getting more mail out the door and scaling our business.

But yeah, I mean, that’s what it looked like, Dan.

Dan: We had a lot, we did not make a lot of money when we brought on our first hires either. Like we, we weren’t making, we weren’t like, I don’t know if we were really making any, but we saw the pipeline and we saw like the trickle effect start to happen and we were so confident and we were just kind of like, let’s rip it.

Ron: And we’re living cheap too. Like I was in a, yeah, we were living, my mortgage was next to nothing and you were, I think you were in the business, but you were also house hacking, right? Yeah.

Dan: Uh, when we started, yeah, it was, you’re right. Yeah, yeah,

Ron: exactly. Yeah. So you had no expenses too. So we’re just, so we’re reinvesting in the business too.

Dan: And then we brought those two employees on. And then from there we hit six or seven figures. And then to get to that next level, we, we brought on, um, what else did we bring? Sales, salesperson. Uh, so that’s really all we needed. Cause then it was me, Ron, salesperson, TC, virtual assistant. It’s just five at that point to do that.

And then you can really scale from there. We didn’t, the thing that we were missing at that point, Uh, I think was we had a data person. When did they come in?

Ron: Uh, no, they weren’t there then.

Dan: You didn’t need a data person. So I think the one thing we were missing looking back was that we talked about this on the call mat was that marketing person, someone who could not only price the mail, that’s such a one sided business model.

I think if you just hire someone to price mail, someone who could oversee the whole marketing scheme from. Getting the contacts, picking the market, um, executing on the mail, they’re sending them out, analyzing the data, coming back the whole marketing sphere. I think instead of looking at one, one little role, yes, they can price mail to maybe, but that’s kind of easy to outsource.

I think in general now I used to have a whole different philosophy on this until we kind of learned the hard way from it. But looking back, that’s, then we talked about this in our last episode. That’s kind of the process we’d go as that marketing person.

Ron: Yeah, for sure. And I think that, I mean, hiring those people, like we, we freed up so much of our time that only like you were just worrying about sales, Dan.

Uh, I think I was selling the properties on the disposition side, but it just, it just made that so much easier to scale. You do not need employees to do a million dollars a year.

Dan: No, you really don’t. And especially if you have a partner, do a V one VA for sure. And you. But you can buy back. Like, that’s the thing.

If you listen to the last episode, you can literally buy back your time and see what, what, because if you’re, if it’s just you and you’re making a million dollars, you’re 500 an hour. So let’s just be a little smarter than what we’re, you know what I mean? That’s outsourced. Some you’re busy, you’re making 500 an hour and very, very busy.

That’s in a 40 hour work week, but a million dollars, 500 an hour. So start outsourcing some of those mundane, cheap, uh, tasks that you can just get off your plate. And that’s kind of what you’re doing right now, Matt

Ron: I think, I think you’re doing it the right way, Matt. Cause you’ve always talked about, and you can touch a little more on this.

Like you’re trying to stay lean as a company. I don’t know if you’re trying to say a hundred percent VAs or what that looks like, but, uh, touch base on that. Cause your goal for 2024 is million dollars profit. You have one employee you want to stay lean. Like, what does that look like?

Matt: Yeah. I think ideally having virtual assistants is the way that I want to go.

Um, my philosophy also might change on that and I might, you know, bring on an American person, but like you can get very high quality talent from people overseas and it doesn’t really make sense to not consider that as like a feasible option. Um, but yeah, I mean, I want to bring on, I want to get my current.

Uh, employee fully up to speed and, you know, uh, hit the ground running probably next week. Um, it’ll be trained up on everything. And then I would say transaction coordinator, uh, is the next hire just because, you know, same thing with, like, if you see where the pipeline is going to be with the amount of volume that we’re doing, I want somebody who’s going to be taking like the menial tasks of communicating with the title company and like reviewing HUDs and all these, like.

all this paperwork stuff, uh, along with like disposing deals. That’s more so you, you mentioned this on a call of ours that that’s more of like a, a customer service type role. Um, like there’s obviously negotiating that goes into that, but like for the most part it’s customer service. So offloading that is going to free up more, like even more time.

But yeah, that would, I would say that’s the next person that comes on.

Dan: What’d you see like the. The task you were doing that was the most annoying lowest value task that you had on your plate What do you think was the most value thing just push to them right away your VA’s?

Matt: Well, my current VA I would say like preliminary market research is something that I really don’t like doing and it’s a very easy thing To like push off because it’s like there’s like four metrics that we need to like hit.

Okay, you just look at the state That we want to do marketing in and then pull the count. It’s just like data pulling really. So that’s something. And then just sending text messages out. I don’t like, I just had him revise an Excel sheet of like our KPI trackers for this past year. That’s just like literally copying and pasting like a thousand different things.

And he did it in like two hours where, I mean, you know, that’s worth 10. I just paid him essentially 10 to do that. And if my time, if I want to make 1, 000, 000, my time is worth 500 an hour, but I spend 1, 000 on this task or two to 10 on this time.

Dan: Unless you said you don’t like it. So you’re looking at it from like a, almost an energy perspective.

Like we also talked about, you’re looking at it from that aspect rather than within combination with the ROI on the,

Matt: Yeah, a thousand percent. Like he did that. I actually went to the gym at that time. So like, yeah. It would have detracted my energy like physically and actual body by doing that. So,

Dan: And I noticed I have a lot more time in my day.

I have more time than I have energy. Sometimes I just get, you do these horrible tasks you don’t want to do all the time. And I’ve been in those spots, especially when I had my old e commerce business, I would be doing so many different tasks. And it’s like, it would only be two or three o’clock, but I’m entered, like from an energy perspective, I’m drained.

Cause I just was doing so many different things that I didn’t want to do. And then I started outsourcing. You can feel like you do buy back your energy too. You’re buying back your time. You’re buying back your energy. You can go to the gym, you can do higher level things. You can put it in the different buckets that make the business drive forward.

Like you said, like the leadership buckets, the marketing buckets, uh, um, everything that, or the sales bucket that really drives the business to seven figures.

Ron: So many entrepreneurs businesses are stalled because they don’t really understand that. Like they don’t understand, like I could hire this for 10, this two hour task.

I could hire for 10 for someone to do it just as well as what I would. What’s your day look like Matt right now in terms of like, like, like I’ve said, like you’re trying to do a million dollars this year. You have one VA. You’ve told me before, like, I’m not that busy. Like that’s your quote. Um, is that still the case?

Matt: Yeah, I would say it is like after this. I don’t know what time it is, like 3 p. m. I’m probably gonna go to the gym and then maybe I’ll get home later and do some like miscellaneous work But um, I’m I mean, I don’t really wake up that early I’m trying to wake up a little bit more early around like 7 which people might say that and laugh but Try to wake up at 7 do some like deep work type stuff Um, I, I just like some of our quarterly rocks, um, just like higher level stuff that I don’t necessarily want to like do during their day where like I could do, you know, phone calls and stuff like that.

Um, so just time, just, it’s a time of the day where I have more time if you will.

Ron: And you’ve outsourced, um, you’ve outsourced pricing pretty much completely to us or pretty, I don’t know how much, if it’s a hundred percent or close to a hundred percent that you’ve outsourced to us. Correct. Yeah.

Matt: I wasn’t very good at pricing.

I mean. There were some counties that I priced myself and I got deals from, but like, again, it comes back to the energy aspect of like, do I really want to spend 10 or six hours, however long it takes, do I want to spend this much time pricing this, or should I just, you know, outsource this, it’ll cost me more, but you know, in the long run it will save me time and there’s less margin for me to make mistakes if I like outsource it.

Um, yeah,

Ron: I mean, there’s really only a couple of things that moved the needle in this business. And I think that’s what you’re doing a really good job focusing on. You’ve anything else to add Dan?

Dan: No. Only that other thing I really have to add is when you start to outsource. When you’re getting on the road to making a million dollars a year, just make sure you’re outsourcing the low value task and then spend your time on the things that are going to get you that million dollars.

Like focusing on your sales and your leads and leadership and everything else that really drives the business. Cause you don’t want to just buy back your time like we’re talking about and then allocate your time to the wrong things. You want to be allocated into the things that really move the needle in this business.

That’s the last thing I wanted to say.

Ron: Awesome. Well, I appreciate it guys. If you guys have not already, please like, and subscribe our YouTube channel. It really, really helps spread our mission forward. Other than that, thank you so much. We’ll see you next time. Thanks guys.

Dan: As always, thank you for joining.

Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.

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