In this episode, Daniel & Ron Apke discuss why lead management in is crucial to building a consistent cash flow.
They stress the importance of focusing on quality over quantity when it comes to leads.
To be the most efficient when first starting out in the land flipping business, it’s best to send around 3,000 to 5,000 mailers per month.
If you are new to the land investing world, check out our video on how we obtain leads HERE!
This range should produce a manageable amount of QUALITY leads.
If you go straight to sending out 15,000 mailers per month, you are going to be boggled down with too many incoming calls, your business operations will become stressed and you could potentially miss a call that costs you $50,000…
Listen or watch the full episode below ⬇️ for an in-depth look into why lead management is so important, and how if done correctly, can lead to bigger and better land deals!
Dan: Welcome to the real estate investing podcast, where we help you unlock your potential freedom through land investing, real estate investing, and entrepreneurship. Hey everyone, welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. Today’s topic. We’re discussing the top five ways we use to get our land leads in 2024.
I’m your host, Andrew Apke, joined again by my brother and business partner, Ron Apke. And we just got off of a YouTube live and people were asking about different ways of lead gen and Google PPC and all of these different methods that we use and we see. And the fact is, most of them will work and most of them do work.
It’s about how you execute on them. And I don’t really care where you get the leads from necessary. There’s the name of the games. Getting going after and contacting motivated landowners that are willing to sell under market value. That’s the name of the game. How you get there. I don’t want to say is irrelevant because it’s very, very important, but that keeps me unbiased with that philosophy and seeing these different ways because things are changing.
Um, restrictions are changing. Texting is constantly changing. Things are coming up in different ways, and we like to stay on bias, but run in general. What’s your opinion on how, how lead generations changed the last, you know, five, 10 years, how, how lead gens changed in the land industry?
Ron: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s shifted.
I think it’s shifted and you need multiple touch points for the sellers, but overall relative to a lot of other things that have changed in the last five years. This has relatively stayed the same and we stick to what we know. We stick to what we know we can get deals and get leads from. So that’s why we just stay consistent.
And there’s a combination of marketing strategies that work really well. And I think too many people switch from marketing strategy aid and marketing strategy C too quick without actually giving the marketing strategy a real chance. And I think that’s where, that’s where people go wrong. They, they change before they can become an expert at one strategy.
And then they are back to being a beginner at a different strategy and do it over and over.
Dan: Absolutely. And I think, um, you know, other than that, there’s a merge is if someone was asking, like I said about Google PPC and all these other ways, like things are coming and going, but the foundation of lead gen really hasn’t changed in a long time when you look at it and we’re going to get into that.
I mean, when you talk about some of the. The base, the most basic lead generation business, uh, uh, acquisition types are, have stayed relatively, you know, the same for even 20 years around a lot of these, and those aren’t going to go away anytime. Those are some of the foundation we’re going to talk about those, but there are other ones that have come and go, and we’re going to talk about those as well.
Let’s get into our five types that we see the most common in the land industry. Number one, it’s how we’ve gotten 90 plus percent of our deals. Um, it’s obviously the mail route run. That’s our bread and butter for people who don’t know about land. They might think that sounds ridiculous, but mail has been our bread and butter, especially blind offers.
There’s two types of mail. There’s neutral letters and there’s blind offers. You know, neutral letters can be a postcard. I’ll classify that as neutral. Something to try to get the, a landowner, um, excited about selling and to contact you and to get in touch with you. If they’re interested, blind offers have a price on them to try to get a very targeted buyer at a specific price.
Hi Bill. I want to buy your five acres in Hamilton County, Ohio for 40, 000. That’s the bread and butter of our business. We do those blind offers. We’ve also done a lot of neutral blind has been our strongest. If you’re going male, I love the blind offer game. Love it. But do you have anything to add there, Ron?
Ron: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that’s been our bread and butter. Like Daniel said, it gets us, I mean, we get about a tech 10 X return on our mail spend in terms of our profit on the backend. Uh, so it works. It works at scale. We’ve never really hit a. A stopping point when mail just doesn’t work, like there’s not a volume that we can send per month where it doesn’t work unless our operations on the back end aren’t there, we get about a call a lead for every 100 pieces of mail, maybe 120 piece of mail that we send.
So it’s not high operational strain and you can do this at high, high scale. This is the most scalable in my mind out of anything, Dan.
Dan: Yeah. And the reason we’re only getting one. Per a hundred, uh, leads and that’s lead drawn saying is because we’re targeting higher, bigger properties. We like big properties.
If you’re targeting smaller properties in the desert that are 300, you know, a thousand, 2, 000, 5, 000, that ratio is going to change significantly. And the fact is don’t look at the lead, look at the ROI on your investment, not the, you know, spend per lead necessarily. Cause those leads come in and they are very qualified.
It might only take you one. You know, two to three leads to get a deal in this business through mail versus in texting. It might take you 25 leads to get a deal if you’re classifying lead identical to each other. So I want to point that out. Don’t look at the cost per lead necessarily look at unless you’re very, very strict on how you’re qualifying your leads.
But over text, you get such a high, uh, lead. You get such a high lead count that you can really get lost in the weeds and it can be inefficient. But that leads me to the next one. We’re on texting. You can go into that.
Ron: Yeah, for sure. Texting is a cheaper entry point and I don’t know if we talked about the cost to get into mail.
Mail is more expensive entry point. Um, but texting is a cheaper entry entry point. You can get 500 or I’m sorry, you can get 10, 000 texts out a month for around. 1, 500 or so where mail might cost 6, 000 for that volume. But like Daniel started to talk about texting is high, high operational strain. You might get two or 3, 000 responses from 10, 000 cold texts, and it is going to be a lot of responses and probably not that many deals from 10, 000 texts.
We. I mean, you might get a deal or two from 10, 000 texts, but it is conversations. It’s going to be a lot of, uh, tire kickers, Stan, as you call them, a lot of tire kickers that aren’t going to turn in deals and there never was anything there, a lot of people texting you back and just being angry and just trying to lead you on, but, um.
It’s a way for sure. Like it is a way that works, uh, especially for people who are like, I want to get started in this business. I have five th $2,000 to my name. Uh, I wanna get started in this business. It is a great, great entry point.
Dan: Yeah. And we didn’t get too much of that on mail, so Mail’s expensive.
That’s why it’s so efficient. Um, well it is. That’s why we still do it is because it’s so efficient. Mail’s expensive. Uh, and, and that’s one of the things to consider when we’re going through these lists is the cost, and we’re gonna bring those up. Texting kind of is in the middle. Um, it’s less expensive than mail, but it’s some more expensive than some of these other routes that we’re going to talk about as well.
But in general, yeah, mail is the most expensive and texting is right under that. So texting is much more affordable than mail is, uh, mail, 65 cents, uh, uh, to send out, you know, an envelope stamp, all that stuff. Texting is. You can get a good service for three to 700 a month and have 10, 000 texts depending on your service.
Just be careful with how you text. There’s a lot of laws and regulations in it. Okay. Let’s go to the next topic here. Number three, cold calling. This is a really solid. This is like the one I was saying around. It’s never going to go away. Same as mail. Like mail has been around. How long has mail been around?
I have no idea, but it’s been around a long time and it’s still working. Same as calling someone on the phone, right? You pick up the phone, you’re calling them. You are directly reaching the landowner. Um, whether it’s you or you’re outsourcing it to an agency or a Legion or whatever it is, that’s, that’s our next one is cold calling.
And in general, if you’re doing it yourself, it’s going to be much cheaper. It’s going to be less, very, very inefficient because you’re calling these people directly. It’s going to be hard to get deals, but it is a way to grind a deal.
Ron: And the thing about cold calling is you will. Get deals that people won’t get from texts that people won’t get from mail, just because there are sellers that respond to different forms of contact.
Some sellers see that spam in the mail and that never gets open. A lot of sellers see a text message and they completely just view it as spam. No one is serious. If you get someone on the phone, like cold calling those. One on one conversations you can have with people, you can land massive deals. Like I think that is the most effective way to land these five, 700, 000 profit deals that are out there.
But again, like Daniel said, it’s also a really. Cheap entry point if you’re ready to grind like it’s high high strain in terms of you might have to make 500 1000 calls something like that to get your first deal to learn the systems everything like that But it’s only gonna cost you a few hundred bucks to get those calls other than your time.
Dan: It’s just time Yeah, you’re essentially with with texting you’re trading your time or not texting with cold calling you’re trading your time For money, essentially. And that’s when you upgrade the mail from texting, right? It kind of goes in that ladder. Cold calling the cheapest with those three we’ve talked about so far cold calling the cheapest texting right above that and then mail.
And honestly, from an efficiency standpoint, that’s how the pyramid looks as well with mail on top from an efficiency standpoint. You can ask. Anyone in the community who does both texting and cold call or texting and mail, and they’re all going to say the same thing. And this is just kind of industry known and industry standard.
But if you want to get more deals out of your area, you can, like Ron said, you can pick different channels in the same market and target them because people are going to respond to one form of communication and not the other a lot of times. And that’s something to keep in mind. Also going from there is email marketing.
It’s one that’s been around also a long time. Uh, it’s changing constantly, but. You know, when you’re skip tracing and getting people’s phone numbers and you’re skip tracing to get their phone numbers, you get their email address as well. And I know people who target do a lot of business from email marketing.
A lot of wholesalers do it also. And it’s something that’s not as big. We have not experimented with the email marketing, um, hardly at all. I know about it just through acquaintances and people in the program that have done it, but that’s another opportunity. I don’t know how well it works yet. A lot of people haven’t done it.
I heard it’s hard to get good qualified leads because people treat, um, people treat. An email as less significance than a text as less significance as a cold call, essentially. Um, so that’s kind of how you want to look at it. The more one on one communication and per impersonal you can get, the more likely you are to get more leads essentially, but emails like texting in terms of you can blast a lot out and get a small, a smaller return back.
Ron: Yeah, email is going to be a similar, um, cost to get started as text messaging. Uh, I don’t know about the operations behind it, what response rate you’re going to get, but as far as like, you’re going to need the email platform, and then you’re going to need to buy the data and you’re going to need to pay for skip tracing.
Very similar to what the costs are going to be associated with texting. And for me, I think texting is a lot more effective. I think there’s better platforms for it. And I think it’s, uh. I does get viewed as spam, but like emails have automated things that will not let your emails get through in terms of the spam detection, everything like that.
Dan: Further apart. It’s further along in that journey. Yeah.
Ron: A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, we don’t know a whole lot about it to be a hundred percent honest guys.
Dan: And if you guys do let us know in the comments, because I’m really, I’m, I love to learn about this stuff, of course, and the reason we don’t get into every single lead gen, like we said before, we’re making millions and millions of dollars through other lead gen mechanisms.
Um, and, and you don’t need to be great at all five, right? You can pick a couple, pick two or three, pick, start with one, get good at one, then add another. If you’re good at two, the name of the game is the same. You learn how to offer people, uh, offer people money. And take them through the process, you’ll be able to get there any direct through any lead source, essentially, or lead generation source.
All right. Next in the last one, number five, I have alternatives like Google PPC and signs. I put those in signs, like in an area. I put those in the same bucket because they really are. Google ad is a sign. It’s just virtual verse in there. There are people who put up signs to acquire land, just like you have acquire houses and things in cities.
Um, and that’s an option. Google PPC. Google PPC. We, like I said on the last one, we have not done Google PPC at all. Um, it’s something people ask about a lot, something I’m going to test out. Eventually. I just haven’t gotten there because these other methods work so well, but it’s, uh, there’s a lot that goes into that round.
That’s all I’ll say.
Ron: Yeah, and to clarify guys, this is basically ads on Facebook ads on Google ads on Instagram saying the target people if you have land. Yeah. If you have land, um, I’m a cash buyer essentially is what it will be saying. Uh, you, you need to find a way the key to doing that successfully in my mind.
is finding a way to actually target vacant landowners. You can do this with household selling a lot better because more, a higher percentage of people in the country own a house versus owning vacant land. Um, but there’s definitely ways, like it’s just about figuring out the ways for how to do the PPC and, uh, growing like that.
But, um, Yeah. Like Daniel said, it’s not something we’ve experimented a ton with. We’ve talked to people, we’ve talked to wholesalers who do it. It’s just about implementing it. But mail works, text works so, so well that, uh, it, there’s no reason to change at the moment.
Dan: And that’s the, yeah, that’s the main reason.
We know mail, we know texting, we know cold calling works so, so well. Um, Google PPC, let us know in the comments. Also, if you guys are experienced with that in terms of acquiring houses, acquiring land, I’d love to see that. Um, and how you guys have that set up. I don’t have anything else to add around. Do you have anything?
Ron: No, not at all.
Dan: As always, thank you for joining. Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.