In the demanding world of land flipping, managing time efficiently isn’t just about working harder; it’s about working smarter.
In this episode, the Apke Brothers discuss the importance of outsourcing and scaling a business to save time and increase productivity.
Once you are at a point where you can invest back into your land flipping business, it is important to start delegating tasks so that you have more time to focus on sales.
1.) Hiring an admin or virtual assistant is the first step in outsourcing and scaling your business.
2.) A transaction coordinator can handle sales and manage the transaction process.
3.) Marketing specialists can help promote the business and reach more customers.
3.) Marketing specialists can help promote the business and reach more customers.
4.) Conducting a time audit and prioritizing tasks is essential to understand where to start outsourcing.
5.) Outsourcing can help save time and energy, allowing for more focus on high-value tasks.
Hiring overseas virtual assistants can be a cost-effective option for small tasks.
Listen or watch the full episode below ⬇️ for an in-depth look into all 5 great strategies so that you can start saving time and building more wealth!
Ron: Every 10, 15 minutes, like you are literally writing down what you did for those 15 minutes. First
Dan: person you should hire is an admin, an executive assistant, a virtual assistant, someone who can do all these little tasks like going on trips with Richard Branson and how he brought one person there and it was executive assistant and he was skiing on the slopes all day.
That is someone who has tremendous value. That’s a huge
Ron: difference. This guy’s running hundreds, hundreds of companies at once. But it seemed like he was just the freest guy.
Dan: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. Today’s topic we’re talking about buying back your time when you’re land flipping. I’m your host Dan Apke joined again with my brother and business partner, Ron Apke. And in spite of coming up with the idea for this podcast, we’re going through the book right now.
Buy back your time. And it’s, it’s a lot of, it’s really, really basic stuff, but it brings you back to the fundamentals of how to outsource and get your time back. As a business owner, as a land investor, you’re sending out mail, you’re pricing, you’re doing your transactions, you’re looking for new counties, you’re doing a million different things at once, right?
Looking at different data trends and all this different stuff comes up. And that’s not even with leads and sales in general. And this is going to be a really good episode on outsourcing and scaling your business. I’m really excited to get into it.
Ron: Yeah, I think this is a topic that we, we talked about a decent amount, but a lot of people who come to us are trying to scale up business, build a real business, not as a side hustle, not this, like maybe you do it on the side to start, but this is what this is going to be all about guys.
It’s like analyzing your time. What are you doing on daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis? And then trying to buy back some of that time because so you can put more time, effort, energy into whatever else you’re trying to do.
Dan: And this can apply really to anyone. So if you don’t have a land flipping business, there are still ways to outsource your time in general.
If you have a corporate job and you’re making money, there’s always ways to outsource it, even if it’s outsourcing through your family for free or getting a partner. And there’s different ways to outsource in general. And this is really for anyone who wants to scale and get back their time. Because at the end of the day, guys, you only have so much energy to put into this business and.
So times one thing, energy is another, and you want to make sure your energy is maximized in the things that matter most to drive your business forward. And that’s a lot of what we’re going to be talking about.
Ron: Yeah, for sure. And that’s, that’s what the main thing that came to me from this book, Dan is realizing the energy.
Some things take a lot of time, but it gives you energy. Other things take two minutes, but it drains the crap out of your energy. And that’s what, that’s like the main takeaway I got from this book. It’s really auditing what is taking so much time, so much energy from me more than time.
Dan: Yeah, and in general too, like there’s, there’s things we’re going to talk about that.
You know, when you’re in a certain place in business, sometimes you need to suck it up and just have your energy drained because you’re doing a high value task. If it’s a high value task and it’s expensive and hard to outsource, like we’re going to get into, then sometimes you need to suck it up for six months to a year, build up, uh, higher property and build up.
You know, some capital to be able to get to that next point, but we’re going to go through the steps of what to hire first in this business and kind of how to go about it. And this is going to be probably one of the most valuable episodes we’ve ever done, I would imagine, but let’s get into it. So the first thing that I want to talk about, Ron, Is where do you notice where to start?
And I think the best starting point is for a time audit. Just analyzing every single thing you do and how much time you’re spending it. And then kind of like Ron said, bring it back to energy. And is it, is it fueling you up to enjoy it? Or are you drained after and tired and sluggish? So I think doing a time audit is the very first thing you can start with.
To understand where you’re at and it would be a good place to know. Keep that time on it because over time you’re going to outsource certain things from it that we’re going to get into. But a time out, it’s probably the best place to start. I would imagine.
Ron: Yeah, for sure. And what that looks like is every 10, 15 minutes, like you are literally writing down what you did for those 15 minutes, whether it’s.
What, whatever it is, putting it down and then analyzing after a week, two weeks, you can do it each night even and analyzing how much money value does it bring and then how much energy does it take or give a, like, for example, like if Daniel and I recording this podcast for the next 30 minutes, this, this gives me a ton of energy.
I love talking to the audience about this stuff in general, just land in general, but is it the highest, highest, highest value? Maybe not, but it’s got some, what I do is like. It’s like a one through four, like one through four in terms of the money value it brings. And that’s how I do my entire day and that’s what a time audit really looks like at the end of the day.
Dan: Yeah. And I, I kind of disagree with what you said on that last part. I look at it like, does it fuel my energy? Yeah, it does. Um, it does. I enjoy doing these podcasts a lot, but I, uh, I also think that just media in general is probably the highest value thing we can do because of the explosiveness of, of social media and the potential there and what, what our reach is, but that’s how you want to do it though.
So. Um, even there, there are times even I don’t want to record and do things and, uh, I don’t want to, you know, record tick tocks and Instagram and all that stuff, but it’s such a high value thing. It’s such a high dollar. No one can really, I’m not going to say no one can replace me, but it’s my channels, my social brands.
So it’s really, really hard to outsource at the same time. So that’s, that’s one of them. But then you really want to label the priority in terms of, um, how important is it to the business? That’s where I would start to with your time audit. How important is that to the business? And by that, I mean, scrubbing data, maybe label it one to five, or you can put money signs on it or something labeled one to five with how important that is to the actual business and how hard is it to outsource?
So like scrubbing data is a 1 sign, right? Or a one out of five, because it’s so easy to outsource and it’s so cheap to outsource and anyone can do it, right? Versus hiring a COO and operator of your company would be a five out of five, right? That’s a very difficult. They’re managing processes, looking for operations, managing employees, potentially.
And versus sales, which is harder than, you know, someone who’s just scrubbing data. So that’s what you want to do next is label the importance of each task.
Ron: And I think this is amplified if you are doing this with a nine to five job, if you’re trying to do this, because you have even more limited time if you’re on the clock eight hours a day with another job, or even if it’s less than eight or whatever the situation is.
But analyzing that and seeing like, like you said, like scrubbing data is the number one thing that we. Go back to Dan in terms of if that’s taking, it might, you might just say like, okay, this only takes me 15 minutes, a couple of times a week or an hour, a couple of once a week. And you might not see the purpose of outsourcing, but gaining that hour back.
And what you can, that’s what we’re talking about. Buying back your time, buying back that hour with a 5 is what it’s going to cost is so valuable to being able to grow.
Dan: Exactly. So once you have that time audit and you labeled your priorities and you understand what’s taking your time and what’s valuable versus not valuable.
You know what to outsource. So I would look at your time audit and look at all the things that you can easily outsource to some sort of an admin or an assistant, which is kind of level one of the hiring. The first person you should hire is an admin, an executive assistant, a virtual assistant, someone who can do All of these little tasks, they can scrub data, they can upload your mailers, they can respond to emails, they can, uh, you know, filter out the inbox.
They can do all this little stuff. They can update your listings and post your properties, do all this stuff and take it off your plate. And that’s the number one thing to hire first.
Ron: Yep. It’s that bottom. Like we talked about this as like a ladder and that’s what Dan Martell does in the book. I want to give credit to him too, because he, he lays this out really, really well.
But that bottom tier is those admin tasks that. Um, are cheap to outsource out and there’s just not really value. It’s you can get it done for so cheap with VAs, with other stuff. Um, yeah, I think that’s definitely like number one. Are they going to take every single admin? Are they going to respond to every single email in your inbox?
Maybe not initially, but they can eventually.
Dan: It’s a low level employee and they’re, they’re meant to get all those minute little details and tasks that drain your energy and take your time every day. That’s why it’s the first part. And it’s the cheapest to hire too. That’s why it’s the number one thing to hire.
Um, but you can grow them and they can be really, really solid, really, really, really valuable to the company. I mean, uh, Dan Martell in the book talks about going on trips with Richard Branson and how he brought one person there and it was executive assistant and he was skiing on the slopes all day. He had a one hour meeting with his executive assistant in the morning.
She’d break down his day, tell him anything urgent that needs to be done, give him the reports, um, give him updates, things like that and get feedback on things from him. And it was really cool to see because he owns hundreds and hundreds of companies. Um, but yeah, that’s like the number one thing to hire.
Cause it can take off so many small tasks. It can be overseas. That’s where I would start. I’d start with an overseas virtual assistant cause it’s so cheap and they can do pretty much anything that you’re, you guys are currently wasting your time on these little details. Um, so it’s a really, really solid place to start.
Number two, Ron, Dan Martell in the book talks about, um, delivery, but that’s not really applicable to our industry. It’s more like a transaction coordinator. So we, we adjusted this whole process, um, to fit our business model. And a transaction coordinator would be the number two person to hire. Someone who can sell the properties, they can manage the transaction.
They can kind of review things a little bit, a little higher level than a VIR, than a virtual assistant would be for you guys in terms of just, uh, um, things they, they are capable of. We’ve already always hired transaction coordinators. Um, on, on the U in the U S and that’s worked out really well for us.
You can do them overseas as well. I know a lot of people who have, but that’s the second tier of hiring.
Ron: Yeah, you definitely, I think it’s very feasible to get these first few rungs of the ladder done overseas. Like I don’t think transaction credit might not be as effective, but if it’s low volume, like as you grow, like maybe hire someone above that.
But I think if you’re trying to really do what this book says, what we’re talking about in terms of buying back your time, you can get. Both of these roles done for 12 an hour. I think.
Dan: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pretty easily. Definitely. And you just got to be aware and train them and, um, look internally and just have the right processes in place to be able to hire and manage people like this.
Of course it comes with, there’s a whole nother side of things to outsourcing, which is managing, and that’s even a lot more difficult than what we’re talking about now, so you got to make sure you have things in place, but for this, we’re not going to talk too much about that. Also, they can. Due diligence is a big one they can do.
They, the transaction coordinators don’t just look like they only do things in title. They can do a ton of things. Um, they can do due diligence. They can communicate with your investors. Um, if you’re getting funding for the property, they can do all kinds of things and they can really help scale your business.
Ron: Yeah, this is, I mean, it is, he calls it delivery and it is delivery like transaction coordinator is delivery. They make the deals happen after the salesperson does their stuff. They make the deals, get through the finish line. You obviously, like we said, you’re going to have some leadership on ahead of them having procedures.
If it’s a, especially if it’s an overseas, having really set procedures and systems, everything like that. But it’s the second rung. It’s not the highest value thing, obviously, as we go up the ladder, but it’s, it’s very, very valuable and it takes up, it eats up. If you look at the time out of Dan, I bet some people on due diligence are doing 3, 4, 5 hours a week.
Dan: Number three, Ron, so we have assistant slash admin, whatever you want to call it, VA. Number two, we have transaction coordinator, someone who can sell and manage the property, due diligence, all that stuff. Number three is marketing as Dan Martell puts it. And it’s a, it’s a data person. It’s um, sending offers.
It’s someone who can manage your, your mail, send the offers, price your mail. He says marketing. So it’s the whole funnel of marketing. But at the same time in this business, you do, if you guys are sending blind offers. You want them to be able to manage the blind offers and get the pricing essentially I think but what you can do wrong I think because it’s not really a full time job unless you’re sending mass mass mass amounts of mail is just higher a data person Yeah, you need a versatile data person who can also upload your understand the marketing funnels, you know after every two weeks We’re gonna send these text follow ups three weeks four weeks, whatever it is four weeks.
We’re sending text follow ups Implementing neutral letters, implementing different things, trying out different markets, looking at the counties. Marketing, uh, we need to look at it more as a marketing role. Than a data person, although the data is, will take a lot of time off their plate and energy a lot of times if they’re not a data person.
Ron: So, yeah, I think the way to like this is not sales and I wanna be clear about that. Like this, this third rung on the ladder is not sales. We are talking about marketing and what I view marketing is, is getting leads. Like, however you are getting leads to the salesperson, I think that’s what kind of encompasses marketing, choosing a county, uh, setting up text campaigns, setting up mail campaigns, sending the mail out, designing the mail letter like this all.
And I a hundred percent agree with Dan. Like we always say like, it’s a data person. Like, yeah. Do they need to be able to price mail? They’d need to be able to do this stuff. Yeah, absolutely. But they also need to understand how to get leads different. Different things are going to come along. Like maybe they need to set up a cold calling system where they, that kind of stuff, like there’s so many different ways to get leads in this business.
I think that’s really important to understand when we’re talking about marketing, marketing position is someone who is designing the systems, designing the processes. Would you say processes to like getting that and just getting leads to the salesperson? I
Dan: I think designing processes in, in, uh, co working with you, the owner, with the leadership team, with the leadership team, essentially.
Yeah. Um, which is you right now for most people, but if you have other people in leadership, that’s great. But, um, a data person alone doesn’t get you, they’re not going to make you that much money. Yes. They’re going to get you more leads and stuff. You got to think of scaling a business like you’re pricing the mail right now and doing all that.
But what if someone’s full time doing that for you, but also choosing where to send the letters, um, understanding the marketing behind it, looking at numbers that, uh, you know, response rate leads, all this stuff from counties, someone who’s sending all the marketing, understanding the whole funnel. So that is someone who can make you a couple million dollars a year.
Someone who’s just pricing data, it does make you money, yes. But if someone understands the whole funnel, how things work, picking the county, sending the mail, follow up text, cold calls, all this stuff, and they’re implementing it into a whole funnel and a marketing system, that is someone who has tremendous value.
That’s a huge difference. It’s yeah. One’s VA to do data for sure. You definitely could teach an overseas VA just to price mail for sure.
Ron: Yeah. 100%. And like, this is like, when you guys are hiring this position, or if you’re hiring this position, what I want you to think about is like, and I didn’t think about it to be 100 percent transparent, I didn’t think about This position, uh, outside of data much until Daniel kind of, we were talking about this earlier, but if you have a marketing person and you tell them, I want to implement texting, I want to implement 10, 000 follow up texts a month, they will do that.
If you go to a data person and we go, you go to a data person and be like, I want to implement 10, 000, uh, follow up texts a month. Like that’s not their job. Like that, that’s not their role. It’s outside of their role.
Dan: Right, exactly . And then a marketing person can come and set up the systems and set up the software and, you know, set up everything.
It’s just, it’s night and day what’s going on. All right. So after marketing and your data person and all of that, number four, we have sales. This is one where people really try to rush hiring and it is a hard, hard, hard job to outsource. And people don’t realize that, um, to get the quality results you want while considering all of these outsourcing You know, we have five different outsourcing ladder buckets here, whatever you want to call them.
While considering all of these, you also want to consider, um, or just keep in mind that these people aren’t going to do it a hundred percent like you are going to do it. And especially with sales, no one cares about it as much as you, no one’s as passionate about it as much as you. And this is a consumer facing role where they are talking and it’s going to be, it’s just different than you talking with them.
Sales is something you’re going to get, even if you’re not a salesperson necessarily. You’re most likely going to get more deals, um, than a salesperson coming to your company. It is your company. They’re going to just do a fraction of what, of what you’re able to do. Uh, Dan Martell says 80 percent is perfect, right?
If you can get someone 80%, that’s perfect. Um, and that’s one thing you want to consider. 80 percent of you. 80 percent of you. Correct. Yep. Which is high. So, and that’s hard to do. And sales is one of those things. There are a lot of times, um, you know, have more alpha personalities. Um, they’re just more demanding in salary.
They’re, uh, really, you know, they’re, they are hungry for commissions and stuff, but at this, it’s just, it’s hard to manage. And I think people rush number four because you’re, that’s a very, very, very high value thing to do. And as a business owner, you can close more sales than anyone.
Ron: Yeah. And I want to reiterate guys, like this is the order.
This isn’t the order of the business. This is the order of like hiring, like outsourcing stuff. Admin delivery marketing sales and we’re talking about the last one here in a minute. But um, yeah I think people skip on these rungs quite a bit Dan and we have in the past like admin was not our First hire was it or did we?
Dan: Um. Well, we had one.
Yeah, it kind of was yeah We were transitioning,
Ron: He’s doing some of admin stuff and that’s what we’re trying to even push more to like as I go through my time on is looking through the admin stuff, but sales is something that You should like, it is a high, high value task. If you say calling, like, especially with this business, if calling, if you are better than the person you can hire at calling back a lead, like that should not be your first second hire.
Dan: I mean, these are 50, 000 deals. 100%. It’s not like Dan Martell’s talking about. He does SaaS. He’s a software guy, you know, so they’re selling 50 a month software. Yep. Think of 50, 000 deals.
Ron: Yeah. If you like losing a deal, it can change your year. Like it can change your. Families like it really can like change your family’s future.
Not that saying you won’t get other deals. But um, Like if you’re just starting this business and you’re trying to outsource sales right away It’s not the right move in my opinion if you haven’t got these other rungs down, but yeah, it is a high high value And that’s the one thing I think we struggled with that first and was trying to hire that one.
I think we skipped ahead to hiring sales. And two, because we could, we could have bought back your time with other things. And then you still did sales. And when we talk about sales, we’re talking about getting leads, right? We’re not talking about selling the land. Correct. Okay.
Dan: This is not selling the clarify that guys.
This is selling the land’s low, uh, lower value. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I would recommend your TC, your, uh, What, what stage did we call that delivery? Yeah, I would recommend your transaction coordinator delivery.
Ron: I think that goes under there, but yeah, I mean, these are, don’t skip that in terms of that.
Like do not expect a salesperson to come in and care about the deals as much as you do not expect them to come in and be better than you at talking to people like our brother is a great example. Michael. our older brother who tried to outsource sales too early or just tried to outsource sales when he really didn’t need to.
Uh, and it was
Dan: because it was draining his energy
Ron: and, um, he was energy draining, but it was a higher, but it was a 4 sign and then a red and like a draining energy, but the dollar sign was too high. But, um, and
Dan: that’s what this lighter’s about. It’s about, like you said, I can’t remember how you put it. But it’s an, it’s not the stages of the business Ron said, but it’s an R it’s based on ROI and what you’re going to get the most ROI out of because hiring an assistant for 4 an hour is going to get you in taking that off your plate.
And so you can do higher level stuff is going to get you a better return. On your spend than someone you’re hiring, 125, 000 sales employee or 150, 000 leadership employee and things like that.
Ron: Where’s your cheapest time being put? Like, that’s the way I look at it is, okay, if I am still scrubbing data a year into this business, that is like, that’s such a low, I can buy back so much time and then I could put money or time into sales.
I could put my time into marketing those higher things. So as you hire the bottom, you’re going to put more time, effort, energy into the ones above. And your time is the most valuable in the whole company. Now we hired, let’s say we hired admin, we hired delivery, we hired marketing. Okay, now all we have is sales in the next one, which we’re about to talk about.
Um, and then you have all your time is being put into very high value things.
Dan: Exactyl. And, and, and especially, I want to reiterate that, especially in this business model. Sales is more important, even more important than a lot of businesses just because it’s just such high, high ticket, uh, things that we’re working at and it’s not that high volume of calls either.
If you’re doing direct blind offers, that’s why I don’t like outsourcing it too early because it’s really not that much, especially-
Ron: Look at your time audit. Like you have a time audit now, do this time audit and then see what you’re actually doing.
Dan: Yeah. All right. Next we have number five. Leadership.
So this is someone who can come in and manage step one through four and help grow it and cater and manage the employees and also set up operations and systems and understand the business better than anybody else besides you at all aspects from everything we talked about. They just understand all the pillars of this business from disposition.
To acquisition to title and due diligence and all that stuff and analyzing properties they can do. That’s what in this business, especially Ron, um, leadership needs to, at least your first leadership needs to be able to analyze properties very, very well. Cause that’s one thing that’s harder to do than send this business, but they need to be able to manage and understand.
It’s that next tier of employees. That’s someone who just understands things to the next level.
Ron: Yeah. And as we go up this ladder, like some people will never get to this stage where they’re hiring a lot of people, which is fine. It’s
Dan: another business.
Ron: But you won’t ever have that true, true freedom without hiring the leadership.
And I think that’s something we realized, like there’s a lot of management that goes in. If you don’t have a leader in your company and there’s a lot of other stuff that goes in, you will never have that true, true free. If that’s what you’re looking for, you can have financial freedom. You can have this, but that’s what he talked about.
Uh, Brunson or Martel when he was with Brunson, he’s like, this guy’s running hundreds, hundreds of companies at once, but it seemed like he was just the freest guy. He just had an executive assistant with him on a skiing trip. He wasn’t taking calls. He wasn’t doing anything like that because he had such a wide range of a leadership team underneath him who dealt with all the day to day issues.
Dan: Yeah. And his processes and systems, he puts so much time into setting that up in his life. He created his own life and his vision and he did it through extreme processes and just outsourcing and just having such good systems in place. And it’s really, really cool to see. But yeah, leadership, um, I’d also say going into here from steps one to five, not only is this an audit on your, on your ROI, but it’s also an audit on.
Um, I think the difficulty of hiring, you know what I mean? Like leadership’s definitely a lot more hard to hire than there’s less level one assistant admin. There’s less of them out there. Um, especially in this business model, you don’t need to hire people that know this business model though. If they’re high, high caliber people, um, transaction coordinators easier to hire than marketing and marketing is easier to hire than sales.
I think this is based on difficulty of hiring to let alone in difficulty of hiring equals. Higher pay too. Yep. So it all makes sense.
Ron: Yeah, I think, I think it goes hand in hand as you guys are going up this late. Um, if you are making money in this business, I don’t see, or if you have money in general, like you should be hiring an admin person right away, a 4 employee, that 3 employee that can take things off your plate.
We’ve talked about it quite a bit recently, obviously in this episode as well, but like that is just someone immediately who can give you, I think one of the issues is Dan, like, and I struggled with it for a while. Like you. One, people are so okay being busy and they think they’re being productive because they’re busy.
But two, like people hire these roles like, and then they don’t have to respond to emails for an hour and a half a day. And they’re like, what do I do with this time? I think people really struggle with where to put time once they do buy back their time.
Dan: Exactly. And, and it’s all about. You before hiring, you should know how to do the thing you’re hiring for in general.
For sure. As you scale up, that might not be as applicable. If you had a hundred employees, Ron, there’s things you’re going to hire that you have no idea about. Um, but you’re going to have good people under you. But at this stage of your guys business, you should know everything going on in your business better than anyone.
And once you understand how to do it, don’t hire a data scrubber. Until you know how to scrub the data. Yeah. Or else you’re not gonna be able to manage them properly. The manager needs to know how to execute. As you work your way up in the chain of commands and you end up hiring a bunch of people under you, it, it changes a little bit, but the, as the, as the manager, which you are, because you’re managing all your employees under you, you need to understand it very, very well to be able to manage it properly.
Ron: Yeah. And you guys are struggling, like you guys have free time, like those top three and four, especially on the ladder. Marketing and sales, like those are where you need to put it. That’s what drives this business is marketing sales. And that’s what, as you hire the admin, as you hire the delivery, like that’s where you need to put your, put your time and effort is into marketing, getting more leads and then sales closing leads.
So I think that kind of lines it up well, Dan, anything to add?
Dan: I don’t have anything else, but other than that guys, as always, thank you for joining. Please like, and subscribe our YouTube channel. It really helps drive our mission forward. Thanks for joining. We’ll see you next episode. Thanks guys. As always, thank you for joining.
Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.