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Finding the Right People

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Anthony: Are there structures on the neighboring areas that are also in the flood zone?

Ron: Super Red flag. If it’s, if nothing else is built on in that flood plain, that’s a super red flag.

Anthony: Then I’m walking away. In Washington, and it’s like completely sloped, but once you get to the top, there’s a buildable spot and you get a view of the water and it’s beautiful.

It’s like, okay, well, how much does that increase the price? How much does that decrease the price?

Ron: And I got kind of crapped on in YouTube comments, like people talking about, uh, you’re a dirt ball for doing that. Like I, I just, I had no clue that was going to sell for 50, 000. Like I honestly felt like I was doing the seller at a time, a service for buying that for 1, 500.

And the thing about it is 99 percent of the time, the seller knows something’s up with their land. Like they’re not stupid. So when you tell them that like they’re not jumping out of their seats, surprised, like they know it’s on the side of the mountain or they know that whatever the situation is. Hey everybody, welcome back to the real estate investing podcast.

I’m your host, Ron Apke, joined with Anthony Weiler. Really happy to have Anthony in here again. He’s been on a few episodes already, uh, brings a depth of knowledge. To the industry, to the land investing industry, to the real estate industry, and really happy to have Anthony alongside with me with this episode.

And today’s episode is all about land defects. And we’re going to talk about the three most common defects we see in land. And first off, Anthony, I wanted to start like. A defect does not mean you cannot buy the land. Like, there are, the key to acquiring defected land is negotiating. And like, that is the start of it.

I have so many stories of making tens of thousands of dollars off severely defected land because you get it at the right price. And I think that is the most important thing. And when you get hurt with defected land is when you’re trying to buy it like it’s normal land, right?

Anthony: Right. Yeah, that, that’s one thing is obviously do your due diligence.

And if it’s, there’s a defect to it, you have to negotiate and you’re just going to have to be transparent with the seller and say, Hey, look, I’d love to give you what I’d sent out if you’re doing a blind offer, like what we teach. But once you take a look at the land, like there’s no way. And if, you know, if you are convinced by the seller, or maybe you just get emotionally tied to the deal, which we talked about that in a, in a previous episode.

That’s where you can really get, um, where you could really get screwed is where you could screw yourself over if you were to move forward with it. But, um, yeah, analyze the deal and you’re going to have to negotiate down. It happens all the time to where we end up getting a lot of profit because we’re not afraid to do so.

Ron: Yeah. And it’s just like, and the thing about it is 99 percent of the time, the seller knows something’s up with their land. Like they’re not stupid. Like they understand like, okay, that property has X defect and they know. So when you tell them that like, they’re not jumping out of their seats surprised, like they know it’s on the side of a mountain or they know that whatever the situation is.

But number one, and these are in no particular order guys, three most common defects that we see number one is road access or lack thereof. So for those of you who are new watching, if your property, if your land does not have legal or physical road access, and we can kind of talk about both of those legal and physical.

So if you look, if you’re driving down the road, you look to the left and you see a vacant piece of land that obviously has road access. Like you can put a driveway in. And access the land for whoever that owner of the land is versus a piece of land that is behind all that land with no direct road access.

How much does that kind of let’s just talk about a piece of land in the middle of nowhere. 200, 200 yards or something off the road, no path getting there. Like how much does that hurt the value of the land?

Anthony: I mean, I, I think it hurts it quite a bit. Cause then you’re gonna have to think about it. If you acquire it, it’s like, okay, well, when I listed for sale, what are questions people are, what are they going to ask?

Right? If I wanted to buy that land, what’s the first thing I’m going to ask? Like, how the heck do I get there? It’s like, okay, well, there’s no road. Okay. Well, do I have to build a road? I’m going through other parcels as well. What does that take? Yeah. So, I mean, it’s a huge factor. I mean, for me, I’m not going to touch it personally unless, you know, there is something I could work out easements would have to get involved.

If for me, I, it’s just not worth my time.

Ron: Yeah. So you have legal and physical access. What I’m talking about obviously has no physical access. It’s way off the road. There’s no road going to it. You also have what’s called legal access. So you legally. There’s an easement or there’s maybe a road that was never built.

That is legally supposed to go to your land and you could put a path or something there to get to the land physically. Um, when you don’t have legal or physical access, please do not buy those pieces of land. Like it is not worth it. Like maybe you can make a few dollars here, but if you have neither.

Like we’re passing, right? Unless we buy it for 5.

Anthony: Yeah. Absolute pennies, pennies on the dollar. Right. Um, and I think this is where people get a little caught up too, cause they’ll speak to a seller and like, Oh no, I’m able to drive it. There’s this road. There’s, there’s access, but there’s not legal access.

Ron: Or it’s a timber road or something like that. You see that all the time.

Anthony: Exactly. But people are like, Oh, I looked at land on D. No, there’s something built out there. It’s like, okay, well do your due diligence, find out if there’s actually is legal access. If not, we’re going to have to figure that out because good luck trying to get it insured with title.

 

Ron: It’s not going to get insured unless title messes up. So that’s kind of the worst case scenario. You have no legal, you have no physical access. Please don’t buy that. Let’s talk about no physical access. So there is not a road going there, but legal access. There is legal access. So there could be an easement that you would have to get built.

Let’s say you got a, it’s 200 yards. Let’s just say 200 yards. You’re going to build an easement or you’re going to have to clear the trees. Do all that, put in a dirt road. So someone, the end buyer can get to the land. Do we mess with those or do, would you touch those kinds of deals?

Anthony: If I’m getting it cheaper than what I had offered, and again, like those are things that you’d have to take a look at the margins is like, okay, is this a good deal?

And if so, how much is it actually going to cost me to build out physical access? How difficult would this be for me? Is it actually worth my time? Yep. So if you’re able to play with the numbers and if you can get a good return on your investment, it’s like, okay, this is actually worth my time. Then by all means, go for it.

But again, like do your due diligence, but normally for us. Like if that comes across our plate, the numbers really do have to make sense. Cause there’s a lot that comes across our plate.

Ron: Let’s say for this example, like you send an offer for 50, 000. The land’s worth a hundred, a hundred thousand dollars. So let’s just say bad for this, uh, for sakes.

Uh, um, so buy for 50 sell for a hundred that’s for normal land. We don’t have normal land. We’re 200 yards off the road. So. You’re 600 feet off the road. You call the sellers like, yeah, I would love to sell for 50, 000. They’re stoked because there’s no road going to the land. Like they’re really excited about that offer.

You let them know, like, listen, Mr. Seller, I can’t do that 50, 000. Let me get a number together. If you guys are willing, let me get a number together, what we can actually do for you. So you call up a company and they tell you it’s going to cost 20, 000 to clear the trees, have a dirt road put in for those 600 feet.

Like, are you offering 30, 000 now to take that 20, 000 off? Or are we going to like, you also. What I look at it as like, I’m also going to have time and effort and managing someone clearing that, like my offer is going to go lower than that. I’m going to offer 15, 000.

Anthony: Yeah. I was, I was going to say around 20, 000.

So pretty, pretty in line in terms of something similar. Cause again, time, energy resources like that’s. And again, you have that conversation with the seller there, they, they’re probably going to push back. But at the end of the day, they understand that, you know, they’re. You got to put yourself in their shoes.

They’re going to negotiate back.

Ron: And this isn’t that hundred thousand dollar property still, because we still don’t have like that road, nice road access that we’re talking about for a normal piece of land that would sell for a hundred grand. So if you got this, you put 20, 000 into it, you bought it for 20, 000, put 20 into it.

You’re all in for 40. Like there’s a chance this doesn’t sell for 80, 000, even if the market value of road frontage land is a hundred. So honestly like 15 to 20 is like the max for something like that. Those situations come up all the time. And what I see a lot of people struggling with is doing their deed research on finding that legal access.

Like it is a difficult thing because sometimes that’s from 1918, is that legal access was written out and you don’t, the seller doesn’t know about the legal access. You don’t know about the legal access. And for you to make the deal happen. You actually got to research it. And there are so many sellers out there that want to sell their land that does have legal access and they might not know it has legal access.

So many of those deals come up for sure. It is some work though, and making them happen.

Anthony: Yeah. And again, as you’re getting started though, like make sure the numbers make sense, but that’s, it’s good practice. Do you do diligence? You understand how to do your research, get deeds, maybe a platter survey could say access to, or an easement granted.

Normally you’ll find it on a deed. Um, but again, try not to spend too much time on it because you’ll get emotionally tied to a deal. Just-

Ron: That’s a lot of work for if that’s your first, second, third deal. Like that’s a lot of work. There’s a lot of moving pieces there. Um, i’m not saying don’t do it. I’m just saying It’s a lot of work.

Anthony: Yeah, evaluate your time. Understand what your time is worth.

Ron: So going into number two and I don’t know. I think these are all kind of equal as far as like how commonly see him. Number two, I’m saying slope. Um, so you have slope in sloped areas, which is not as concerning as sloped in, uh, I don’t know, some kind of farm area where you have like some random slope parcel in the middle of a farmland type of area, like that’s going to be more concerning because they’re not used to it.

You go to Northern California, you go to, I don’t know, anywhere out West in the North, North, uh, in the Northwest where it’s extremely sloped. Or in the Northeast where it’s extremely slope, like some of the slope is not as concerning because builders are used to building on it. People are used to dealing with it and they just are understand that land is sloped there, but it’s a tough thing to evaluate and you really need boots on the ground to properly evaluate it.

 

Anthony: Yeah. Cause when you take a look and I feel like this one’s actually the biggest one, I think people struggle with in terms of the slope because yes, it could be buildable depending on the type of slope, but then it’s like, well, the rest of, let’s say 20 acres, for example, maybe one acre or half an acre could be built and the rest is downhill or uphill.

It’s like, well, is that still considered like 20 acres? How do I evaluate this? So there’s a lot of moving pieces, but the biggest thing, get boots on the ground. You’re going to have to visualize it and see what it looks like. Take a look at Google earth too. If you can do the street view, that’ll help you out as well.

But again, that’s where it gets really tricky for people.

Ron: And a lot of times the thing about slope is like, you can have a really bad, like a really high slope percentage over the entirety of your land. The key to what I have found, and I’m not, it’s not always true. The key to selling a slow piece of land is having a boatable spot.

Like you can have very sloped, it can be steep uphill for 90 percent of it. But in the middle of that 90 percent going up, there’s a little flat area. Like, okay, this is a sweet little Ridge you can build on. And it’s going to be a sweet view. It’s going to cost some money to put a driveway up there.

Negotiating on these is like, it’s almost like a gut feel for me whenever I’m kind of like telling you to negotiate on something like this. I don’t have like a. Tried and true method for negotiating slow plan. It’s just like, where do I feel comfortable buying this deal at?

Anthony: Yeah. And I think that’s why people struggle the most when it comes to the slope for that reason.

It’s more of a gut feeling, like how we had just mentioned, um, uh, physical and legal access for me. That’s a lot easier to evaluate, come up with a price, but when it comes to slope again, there’s so many things like, okay, well it’s completely sloped, but there’s that’s like, we have a deal we may fund in.

And, um, in Washington and it’s like completely sloped. But once you get to the top, there’s a buildable spot and you get a view of the water and it’s beautiful. It’s like, okay, well, how much does that increase the price? How much does that decrease the price? So again, um, as long as there’s a buildable spot that does help you, but it is a gut feeling and that’s where it gets really difficult.

Ron: I think slope is like the most risky going into these deals of what we’re talking about because you really do not know exactly how the buyer is going to react. The buyer pull is going to react always put in. The hard thing is we’re not doing land in our backyard. Like, like you said, we’re doing in Washington.

Like, I don’t know. I don’t know. Like, I don’t know that land. Like you want to put yourself in the buyer’s shoes, but I’m not in the buyer’s shoes in Washington. I can put myself in the buyer’s shoes in Washington. If it’s with something normal that I see in different areas of the country. But with like slope and these other things, like it’s so local, I think like slope is slope at the end of the day, but like they can build on some crazy slope out there in Washington that people in Ohio would look at, like, we’re crazy, like they’re crazy.

 

Anthony: Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m from Southern California and we had a lot of floods recently and just a bunch of mudslides. Cause in Southern California, there’s a bunch of like mountainous areas and you’re practically on the edge of a hill. It’s like, how do you, how do you build that? But there are places, um, in the United States like that.

So. Like you said, utilizing local knowledge, if you can, sometimes what I’ll do is I’ll just call the county and try to speak to someone in engineering or like a building, uh, the building department, like, Hey, you know, this is, I have this under contract. I’m looking to buy it’s heavily sloped. I’m not from the state.

Try to give me some insights. You know, that helps me out quite a bit. You could utilize, uh, an agent as well. Someone that you trust or you build a relationship with them. Always be careful with that because they may just tell you what you want to hear, get you under contract, all that good stuff. But try to utilize local knowledge if you can, just to make yourself feel more confident.

But at the end of the day, if you’re like, this is too risky, maybe go after a double close and see what the market’s like. Then as you get more deals, you have a better understanding.

Ron: Yeah. I think boots on the ground is probably the number one thing to mediate risk. I think with slope number one and number one a is getting boots on the ground and negotiating the price.

Like if you’re not negotiating the price and you have a severely slope, like. Be ready to maybe not lose money, but you might take a little bit of hit or it might surprise you for the buyer pool. So getting into the final one is wetlands slash floodplain. And these two are different. I, I, I grouped them together cause it’s water.

Uh, but at the same time, these are completely different. Sometimes wetlands and floodplain. but they are completely different things. Floodplain is a chance of flooding floodplain is built on in a lot of places in the country. Florida floodplain is built on a ton. Wetlands is something where you need, and I’ve done a lot of wetlands research over the last 12 months.

I’m trying to learn more about it, but wetlands is something you need. Literal federal approval to build on, and you cannot do without that. But let’s kind of start floodplain. First, so building or buying a piece of land in floodplain, like you automatically 100 percent floodplain. Let’s just say 100 percent floodplain, five acres, normal parcel.

Um, what are we looking for there?

Anthony: I want to know what’s going around that floodplain. Um, so let’s say that five acre parcel you gave, for example. Are there, are there structures on the neighboring areas that are also in a flood zone? Because that’ll give you an idea of if it’s actually buildable or not.

So that’s the main thing that I look for first.

Ron: Super red flag. If it’s, if nothing else is built on in that floodplain, that’s a super red flag.

Anthony: Then I’m walking away. There’s, there’s nothing that you could do with it. Um, so if I do see that again, I’ll just call the county and just try to speak with someone too, because they’ll have a good understanding as well.

But for me, once I see that and I’m like, okay, it’s most likely completely fine. If there’s plenty of structures around it that are also in the same flood zone.

Ron: Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. So yeah, that is the number one thing. Again, floodplain is something that you should probably negotiate down on, even if, so you got to look from an insurance perspective from the end buyer, like always think, and it’s something I started saying probably six months ago, maybe 12 months.

I don’t know. Time kind of goes, uh, fast. And I don’t know when I said at first, but it’s something I’ve been talking about a lot for the last six, 12 months, whatever it is, is like, put yourself in the buyer’s shoe. Like if a buyer is buying your land in a hundred percent floodplain. Even though there’s buildings all in that floodplain, what do they have to deal with if they want to build, they’re going to have increased insurance costs for sure, along with maybe some higher loan costs when they’re building for the building loan, all those other things are going to come into play.

And that’s what the buyers are going to look at and how many buyers are going to say, no, I’m not building in a floodplain like that is going to be a high portion. So put yourself in their shoes. That’s really the number one thing. What I don’t mind with floodplain, um, is when, let’s say five acres again, and three of the acres are in a floodplain, it’s not going to be wet back there the majority of the time, unless it’s in a wetlands as well, which we’ll talk about in a second, but if you have two free acres, it’s buildable, it’s normal land, like, that’s good.

It’s like you do not have to decrease the price too crazily. You might not even have to decrease it at all if it’s in a good area. So, uh, And those three acres in a floodplain, like you don’t worry about it. You can still use those. The end buyer doesn’t care as much.

Anthony: Yeah. And for me, these are the best situations.

I love situations like this because you still have plenty of reasons to negotiate down. Even though you still have two acres in the front that are buildable. It looks great. The flood zones in the back. I mean, you still have plenty of reasons to negotiate down though. Cause like you said, an end buyer, they’re going to have to pay for flood insurance.

Put yourself in their shoes. Like, okay, well, I’m going to look out for them and myself to sell this faster. I’m going to have to get this at a lower price because I’m not going to want to have to deal with that on the backend.

Ron: And one thing I always look for with floodplain is where is the floodplain coming from?

It is every single time you guys, if you have been on any of our calls and you see floodplain deals, I try to find the water source of where the floodplain is coming from. Where is that Creek that it’s coming from? Where is that river that it’s coming from? Put on the water features overlay on id. land.

I’m sure you’ve seen me do that. And then like, find out where it’s from. Like, okay, we are really close to that Creek. Which is what’s causing the floodplain like that’s a little more concerning Then the floodplain that’s a mile away or something like that. And we’re a mile away from the Creek. Um, but, uh, so going into wetlands, wetlands, floodplain is a chance of flooding wetlands is typically, I don’t want to say typically, cause I don’t know all the facts on it, but a lot of times it is like standing water.

Like it’s marshy. It is not buildable. Like you need a lot of permits. Wetlands are to protect a wildlife, essentially, like that is the purpose of wetlands. They’re natural in terms of that. That’s why we’re not just building over wetlands everywhere. Um, it’s very good for wildlife, all the nature, everything like that.

Um, so I don’t mess with them much, honestly, Anthony.

Anthony: Yeah, I, I agree. There’s just a lot more risk associated with it because at the end of the day you want when you’re selling it, you want people to be able to build on it unless it’s like duck hunting land or something like that to where most of it’s going to be covered in a wetland.

Like that’s fine, but at the end of the day, it most likely is standing water and there’s so much risk associated with that, especially if there’s not a buildable part in the front.

Ron: Yeah, exactly. Um, and I’ve talked about this story. We had a YouTube, uh. I don’t know if it’s YouTube short here recently that I was talking about a property that we bought 100 percent in wetlands.

I think it was before you were, I know it was before you were here actually. Um, it was three acres. We offered 15, 000. And our salesperson at the time came to me. He’s like, they really want to sell. We offer 15, 000. I’m like, this is a hundred percent in a wetlands. I’m not buying this. Tell them no. And then he called them back, told them, no, we can’t buy this.

Sorry. It’s a hundred percent wetlands. And they said, not verbatim, but they said, um, What will you guys pay for it? Like, is there any dollar amount you guys will pay for it? He came back. I think I was kind of in the room when he was on the call. I said, I don’t know, tell him 1500 bucks. We offer 15, 000. Uh, he’s like 1, 500.

Assuming they’re going to say no. I’m like, oh crap. They, now we have to buy this. And I got a little nervous that time. I’m like, I’m like, now I’m buying three acres. Like what are, what is an end buyer going to do with three acres in a wetlands? Uh, three acres, good acres are worth about 40, 000 there. Mike it’s 1, 500.

We’re going to be all in 2, 500 after that. So we bought the property for 24 and change. I want to say. And we sold it for 15, 000. Um, so we had an end buyer who bought this 100 percent and they were aware of the whole situation. I think they’re using it for rec land or putting their RV or something. And they had three acres in that area for 15, 000.

And I got kind of crapped on and YouTube comments like people talking about, uh, you’re a dirt ball for doing that. Like I, I just like, I bought it for a price that I had no clue that’s in itself for 50, 000. Like I honestly felt like I was doing. The seller at a time, a service for buying that for 1, 500, which sounds crazy because what I sold it for, but I was risking all that money at the time being.

Um, so, uh, you can buy land and wetlands, but that’s pennies on the dollar. I offer 10 percent of what my original offering is it going to always work like that? Probably not, but there is a price for everything.

Anthony: Yeah. And it’s all about shooting your shot and feeling comfortable negotiating. Another big thing we push in the community is like, have a conversation with the seller.

If you need to negotiate down, negotiate down, and there’s plenty of reason to do so, especially with that example, but that’s phenomenal. Being able to sell it for that price.

Ron: I mean, it was worth 40, 000 if it wasn’t wetlands, but obviously it was, I don’t know if the end buyer knew something about the area that I didn’t know, or.

Maybe our overlays were off or something, but without trying to negotiate guys and some deals, there are deals like, I think, uh, access is a one that where you don’t want to, you don’t want to just buy it for any price. Like there isn’t a price for some of them, but like being willing to negotiate with defected land is so important and so many people don’t do it and it’s costing them. Probably six figures plus a year.

Anthony: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about like the example you gave and it’s like, imagine less serious, um, situations like that in terms of defect and you still offer full market price. It’s like, one, you’re not going to get funding. Like people are going to look at that and say, no way, there’s too much risk associated with it.

And two, like, okay, this just isn’t going to work for me. You lost a deal that potentially someone could have said yes. And you offered pennies on the dollar. I mean, those are slam dunk deals.

Ron: Imagine if it wasn’t a 15, 000 deal. Imagine if it’s 150, 000 deal and I can pay 20, 000. Yeah, like it’s just a real, it’s a real thing.

Like there are like people have really bad land out there that there are and buyers for it, but they have no clue how to sell it. Uh, we, we know how to sell stuff if we get it for the right price. But, uh, I think that’s kind of the base of this episode and that’s kind of the message I want to get. Past like yeah, there are these are the three most common defects for sure and they definitely affect the price of land But they do not kill deals necessarily

Anthony: Yeah. It’s the three most common defects in land But also the three most common reasons to negotiate to get it for a lower price like that’s where people in our community Really, I think Accelerate is because they’re not afraid to have those conversations.

They see defects or they see some defects, they smile because they know there’s an opportunity from it if the land looks good enough. So I think it’s so important.

Ron: Is there even like a close for you number four? I have one in mind, but is there one for you like a close number four? Um, not talking about title, not talking about deed, anything like that.

Anthony: Okay. Um, no, for some reason I was thinking probate, but that’s title related

Ron: The, the two I can think about are one is shape. Oh yes. But it’s not even close to these three. And the other one is timbering, timber land. Oh yes, very good. Like severely and poorly timbered land. But we’re not going to get into those in this episode, guys.

These three by far are the most common that you’re going to run into. Don’t be scared to negotiate. Other than that, guys, if you have not already, if you’re watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button below, it really helps us grow this mission. What we’re doing. If you’re listening on Apple or Spotify, leave us a review, share it with a friend.

All that really helps us. Other than that. Thank you so much. We’ll see you next time. As always, thank you for joining. Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else.

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