Land Flipping in 2025: Goldmine or Oversaturated Market?

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April 1, 2024

In this episode, Daniel Apke & Ron Apke deep dive into a question that is often asked by skeptics & real estate investors curious about land flipping:

"Is the market too saturated?
"What does the competition look like compared to other investing avenues going into 2025?"

Watch or listen to the full episode below to uncover more truth about competition in the land flipping space going into 2025, and why getting started now may be the best option for you!

Watch the Full Episode Here

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Ron: It’s really the same thing as any industry. Like any industry has competition kind of laugh about it all the time. Like you compare this to wholesaling, which we’ve done before. I can’t even imagine. I’ve never seen a business like it before, and I’ve been in 12 different businesses right now, we’re closing on a property or getting her 450, 000 cash.

And if she knows there’s more value out there, getting the cash fast is what really sells it to a lot of them.

Dan: Land is super important. So far from that point, and it is getting more competitive, but you also have eight times the amount of supply as parcels with structures on it. Inventory is bigger and the competition is so much smaller.

We’re just getting into the phase where even competitions involved.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. Today’s topic we’re talking about is land investing too saturated. And we’re in the middle of 2024 right now, but obviously this goes on further than probably into 2025. But as always guys, I’m your host, Daniel Apke joined again by my brother and business partner, Ron Apke.

And we’re just on a call with our, our business mentor. And we’re talking through, you know, our number one objections with land investing and land investing online and our program and offering and everything. And it was easy for me. It was, is it too competitive? What, like what makes my business different?

And it’s a very simple answer that I could probably answer in three, four sentences and get this episode over with. But we’re going to talk about the background and more things in it. Ron,

Ron: Yeah, happy to be here. Our brand new podcast studio. Hopefully you guys are enjoying watching this. Um, but yeah, it is a, from consultations, we talked to people in consultations.

We talked to just people first getting started, like it is in their head and I want to attack it head on. Because it’s really the same thing as any industry like any industry has competition and we talk about and kind of laugh about it all the time like people talking about like this being competitive you you compare this to wholesaling which we’ve done before

Dan: Well, what about the old industry used to be in logistics

Ron: logistics i was in uh yeah

Dan: How many people are you competing with on every single

Ron: I can’t even imagine like it was for, so what I did was essentially line up truck drivers for loads is what they call them.

And, uh, yeah, I mean, 30 people and they’d get cold called all day long. Like, it’s just, you gotta be able to close deals and that’s what this thing is. Just as much as any other sales job, like you gotta be able to talk to people, close deals, make things happen. But when you’re comparing to other things, the potential for land versus like the resistance, it’s just such a good opportunity.

You often talk about like. Opportunities, um, and how, how much opportunity is in certain things. Do you still agree the same thing? Like this is a level 10 opportunity.

Dan: Yeah. And level one opportunity being something like. Uh, I don’t want to say logistics because that’s a high level opportunity because there’s such a low amount of, uh, barrier to entry for the way you were doing it.

So, that would be a mid tier, you know, opportunity, I think. Uh, high oppor or low opportunities would be, I think, like house flipping where it’s a ton of work and a ton of capital, uh, and a lot of room for risk and things like that. So yeah, a lot of scale. Yes. So that’s more on and you can still make money on any of these businesses.

They are proven business models. All of these are that we’re talking about and you can go into any one of these and probably make a million dollars. There’s ones that are easier than others to get started. And when it comes down to that, it’s how hard is it? How profitable is it? How much competition is all of those things come down to it, Ron.

And I think land investing from a simplicity standpoint, Along with the high profit potential, you know, this is simple. We’re flipping vacant roll land. You know, we’re not doing anything and we do subdivides and things like that. That adds a little more work, but it’s still fairly simple of a business model.

We’re buying, we’re reaching out to landowners, uh, giving them an offer, buying a property and closing the property and then reselling it right away. So, and just flipping it and that’s where the margin is. And there’s so many different strategies you go into, but from a simplicity standpoint with the profit margins, it’s 10.

I’ve never seen a business, uh, like it before. And I’ve been in 12 different businesses and I’m biased towards it, obviously, cause I’m in the industry. But there were so many businesses that led me to get to this industry. So it’s not like I only see it. And our brother, Mike said the same thing. So our brother, Mike, uh, who owns droners.

io with us and has been in the land flipping space a long time, he hasn’t really sent out any mail in this year. I mean, he has a little bit in the first quarter and he’s already, I think he’d made mid one hundreds in profit from, and he’s like, that’s why I love this business model. You can turn it on and off and still be highly profitable.

Ron: That’s a good point. And. Yeah, it’s just the though a lot of times we’re talking to people and I think I talked about in the last episode I did like you have to be careful like explaining the business model to people because how I don’t want to say scammy. It sounds, but like just the opportunity is so, so big, like the ability to buy something for 50, 000 and sell it for a hundred thousand dollars over and over and over again, just like that.

That’s how we explain it to people. Like, this is what we do at scale. We buy land for 50, 40, 50 percent of market value and sell it at a hundred percent of market value. And it sounds crazy, but. Just the, the level of opportunity in it. The, uh, it’s a combination of things. Why the sellers are motivated, um, are mass marketing strategy.

There’s a lot of things that come together that make it such a good opportunity and you need to be doing things the right way. It’s not like anyone can just come in and do whatever they want. No. What are your thoughts though? As far as like with a high level business or high opportunity business.

There’s not a ton of barrier to entry in land. Like, is it always going to be a level 10 opportunity? Or is it going to be the niches that are the level 10 opportunity? Like, what are your thoughts on like the direction as a whole? Because there isn’t much barrier to entry while there’s so much opportunity right now, there isn’t a ton of barrier to entry.

Dan: No, there’s not. Anyone can reach out to anyone.

Um, and there’s, you know, you can do it through text or cold calling. So when you talk about mail, the barrier to enter is kind of expensive. It’s not nothing. Uh, but it does take the right resources to do it. Whether you’re buying the loan with your own money, you have a hard money partner. You have a, uh, you know, someone to fund it like traditional funding run, traditional deal funding that we do with the profit split on the end.

So I think funding the deals can get a little trickier, but then you have double closing and wholesaling. So is it always going to be a level 10? Things are going to change. We might not buy a property for 40, sell it for a hundred over and over again in the future. But you got to realize the motivation of these sellers and the value we provide.

And that’s when I want to touch on because that comes down to why it’s a level 10. These people, the number one thing that comes to my mind, these land owners don’t live on their land. They live in a house. When they need money, something happens. They’re foreclosing on their property and they need 50, 000.

And what are they going to do? They don’t have stocks. They have a car. Are they going to leave their house or are they going to sell the assets they have? They don’t live in their land. A lot of them times they’re paying taxes on it. They’ve been there very few times a lot of the times they’re out of state, whatever it is It’s an asset that they can liquidate quick and that’s what we offer.

We go to those people in distress They’re not always in distress either. Um, that’s a misconception when we go in these people who need that forty fifty thousand dollars They’ve been paying taxes. They’re sick of paying taxes They’re highly motivated to get rid of their land and we offer them a quick way out People say why don’t they just list it on the market?

You They can do that and a lot will, but if they need that money now, they can’t wait six months. They don’t need to pay that 10 percent uh, realtor fee. A lot of realtors don’t even know how to list land in rural America. We’re talking rural. This is an Atlanta, Georgia. We’re talking three counties removed.

Like it’s hard to get people out there to even look at your land. You know what I mean? Especially if it’s 20, So it’s a liquidation process and that’s what we offer.

Ron: Yeah, a hundred percent agree. And I think that’s what a lot of people don’t realize is the motivation of the sellers and why they’re selling.

People always ask, why are they selling? Cause we’re offering them cash within two weeks. We’re not trying to like, sometimes we double close, but we’re not trying to just get them under contract, make a couple hundred dollars selling the contract or anything like that. That’s not our business model, our business model, and we can talk about it from a seller’s perspective.

We have never. Received a bad review from a seller ever. We take surveys from sellers. We do all this different thing with our sellers to make sure that the value is there. I’ve never had a seller call me back a month after we sold their property and be like, Hey, you just bought this for me for 40, 000 solar for 80, 000.

We’ve never once had that phone call ever. And then I think, I think that’s a Testament. To the service we’re giving them and the value that we have, we’re giving right now, we’re closing on a property with a lady who’s going through a tough time. We’re getting here 450, 000 cash, like for a piece of land that she inherited, um, So like the ability for them to get high volume of cash, uh, in a short amount of period of time, which land can take two, three years to sell at that price, a hundred percent.

Like she doesn’t want to do that. She’s not interested in that. Even if she knows there’s more value out there, um, getting the cash fast is what really sells it to a lot of them.

Dan: Correct. And, and so you, you brought up double closing there. And I want to talk about that because if you’re, if you’re highly motivated to get rid of your land and you’re calling me, And I have one offer and that’s 45, let’s, let’s say it’s five for 50.

So for a hundred, right. And I’m talking to you and, and you want more money and you’re like, Oh, I can go list this on the market for, 80 to 90, 000. Let’s say you say we think we can get a hundred for it for it. Okay. So we can get a hundred. She, she thinks she can list it for 80. I can go into the reasons I say, yeah, but you can’t really get your money that quick, right?

You’re, you’re, you’re going to have to get a realtor. 10 percent comes, you got closing fees. I pay for all those and you start having the conversation. And depending on where that goes, the number one goal we have is to buy that property at the offer price. The number two goal is to negotiate to where it still makes sense to where we can buy it, right?

Maybe we can offer 58, 000 and it still makes sense for our financial situation. Third is a double close. And this is where you can add a ton of value for the right people who want to sell. Maybe she bought it for 58, 10 years ago, Ron, that happens. And she won’t take a dollar less than what she bought it for, but she wants to get rid of it.

Highly motivated seller. Doesn’t need the liquid or the cash as, as fast. So it’s a little less liquid. You can start offering the double close. She wants 68, 000, let’s say, okay, I can still sell this for a hundred. There’s a ton of margin there for, you know, uh, 32, 000. And that’s where you can start to go to those double clothes and provide immense amounts of value.

It’s not for everyone. Don’t skip those steps, but you’re talking about someone who is going to put it on the market for 80 to 90. And now I can offer, you know, 70, 75, I said 68 for this example, but whatever, you know what I mean? It just, and I can probably get her. I’m going to list it better than her realtor.

I’m going to get her money. It just, as long as you have a very motivated seller, you can make things happen.

Ron: I think that’s a good point. Just. How double closing works, how you give these sellers options on whether you want the fast cash now or you want to, you want us to find an end buyer and we can get you an extra 15, 000.

And the crazy thing is like a lot of people think they put, they’re put in that position. They’re going to want the more money in 90 days, whatever it is. A lot of times they’re taking that 50, 000 because they have options to weigh now for sure. 50, 000 now versus 65, 70 and 90 days. So many of these people are like, okay, let’s do the 50, 000.

Now that sounds good. Um, and that’s just the mindset of it, but let’s talk a little bit about the future of this business. This is a saturation topic that we’re talking about. Obviously there’s so much opportunity right now, but 12 months ago, we weren’t teaching double closing 12 months ago, we weren’t really teaching texting.

Uh, we definitely weren’t teaching cold calling, which we’re talking a ton about now. Niches. We did niches. Uh, sporadically, I think, uh, subdividing, uh, what do we call it? House hacking, not house hacking, land hacking, land hacking, all these different things, subdivide hacking, subdivide hacking, we’ll call it.

Um, but, uh, all these different things weren’t a part of our business model. I think that’s part of it is adjusting, but what are your thoughts on kind of the next 12 months, if you can kind of try to predict.

Dan: Subdividing isn’t. It is a niche, but subdividing is a business. And I think a lot of people can go that route and only focus on subdividing because now the way subdividing works, and I always say it’s like buying, you know, hot dogs at a, at a baseball game versus at Costco.

Uh, you can pay a hundred, 150 percent for the land sometimes if it’s exactly what you want. So subdividing is a business model and there’s a ton, a ton, a ton of opportunity, major and minor subdivisions opportunities. But as more competition comes in, first thing to know. Is, you know, have you guys looked at the wholesaling like runs that industry or the housing industry and seen how competitive that is and how many people do it and how many people want to get in it and HDTV, how it just blew everything up with that land is so far from that point.

And it is getting more competitive, but you also have eight times the amount of supply as parcels with structures on it. Um, so it’s just the inventory is bigger and the competition is so much smaller. We’re just getting into the phase where even competition is involved and it makes you pivot. We got a text, we got a call, we got to hit these people with multiple touch points.

One mail done doesn’t work well anymore or doesn’t work as well, I should say. And you got to hit these people from different directions. And it’s going to continue to change. You’re going to pivot. You’re going to have to start figuring out ways to offer 70, 000 for 100, 000 property and, and getting hard money’s going to get like, we’re starting to see hard people getting hard money and things like that in traditional deal funding going away because the margins are too small.

Uh, in certain situations. So things change, money gets cheaper, uh, comp as the competition in the space gets higher. The, uh, cost for money gets cheaper. So it allows you to do tighter deals. Our best people sometimes have 10 percent annualized loans like, uh, John, for instance, and he’s doing such a high volume and he can buy for 65 and sell for 85 because he has such cheap, good loans on his.

So I think. Money, money needs to get cheaper over time for those deals. Uh, not on every day. You’re still going to get the buy for 40, 50. So for a hundred all the time, over and over, I’m talking about in the way future, say it gets very competitive. Got to contact these people five to 10 times. You got to have follow up texts going to them.

You got to get them on the phone. You got to build a reputation. You got to get them on zoom face to face, go out there and meet them. So many different ways to differentiate yourself and. It’s going back to wholesaling and house flipping Ron. I know tons and tons of tons of people my friend Matt He’s getting you know, tons of wholesale opportunities every month.

How do you think he’s getting them? Same thing? He’s cold calling. He’s texting He’s going and knocking on these people’s doors all of them work together and you get deals. They don’t go away It’s just gonna get more competitive.

Ron: Yeah, I I think it’s just like and you touched so much there is really good I think it’s just Continuing to learn like if you’re just if you started this business 24 months ago and like you’re just doing the same thing forever Like yeah, it it will work But what for one thing getting cheaper money is a huge thing John for example is one who he does the male thing That’s all he does Like, we’ve talked to him about doing other things, but he is stuck on the mail.

Dan: He’s good on sales, too.

Ron: 100%. He’s good on the phone. And he has good realtors. And he has good funding, though. Like, that’s what, what John’s separator is in this business, is he can go up to that 70, 000, sell for 100, and buy it. Not a double close. He doesn’t even blink twice. Yeah, exactly. So Finding like what’s your separator in the next 12, 24 months is so important.

Whether it’s followup, cold calling, followup, texting, all these different things. Um, it’s just continuing to learn and adjust your business as needed. Mail still works unbelievably well, but how do you take your business to next level? Like you need to find that separator.

Dan: It’s not, uh, this business is no different than any other business and people try to put it in its own category.

The, The touch points is the biggest thing I want to talk about because we have so many different, uh, we’re used to just sending one mail. And I want to reiterate that before we wrap it up is just like, think of multiple touch points and getting ahold of people in different ways. And you know, if you can set up zoom calls with these people and look at it, like a closing, like try to close them on spot and kind of like we do, like you set up that initial call.

You gauge their interest and then you get them on a Zoom call and just think of ways to better yourself and connect more with these people.

Ron: You’re trying to make 50 grand on a deal. Like you’re not trying to like sell a It’s a high ticket. You’re not trying to sell a hundred dollar like pair of shoes.

Like you’re trying to make a 50, 000 six figures on a single deal.

Dan: You’re gonna need to touch people multiple times. A hundred,

Ron: a hundred percent you need to touch them multiple times. Um, but uh, anything else Dan?

Dan: No, I think we’re good to go.

Ron: If you guys are watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button below.

If you’re listening on Apple or Spotify, share this with a friend, share it on an Instagram story. It helps so, so much other than that. Thank you so much. We’ll see you next time.

Dan: Thanks for joining guys.

As always, thank you for joining. Please do us a huge favor and like, and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend.

It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.

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