Wholesaling vs. Land Flipping: Pros, Cons, and Profit Margins Revealed

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In this podcast episode, Daniel and Ron Apke dive into the comparison between wholesaling land and traditional land flipping, examining the pros, cons, and profit margins of each approach.

They discuss how wholesaling land involves finding deeply discounted properties and quickly selling them to other investors without making any improvements.

This method offers the advantage of quicker returns and lower risk, but it often comes with slimmer profit margins. The Apke brothers explore the benefits of wholesaling, such as minimal upfront capital requirements and the ability to move on to the next deal rapidly.

Watch or listen to the full episode below to hear the pros and cons of each strategy, and get more insight into which method might be better suited to your business model! ⬇️

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Watch the Full Episode Here

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Ron: With land flipping, I mean, it is what it sounds like. That’s the biggest difference. We are buying the property, we’re putting our names, we’re not looking for buyers before we buy the property.

Dan: The good wholesalers, I met with a guy in Tampa and he does tremendous due diligence. That’s how good ones can stand out is by actually doing the work for the builder.

If I go to Anthony and he owns 10 acres in Hunt County, Michigan, and I asked him, you know, to pay 50, 000 for his property. And I’m like, Hey, I need 120 days to close. Ron comes in and offers them 40, 000 and he’s like, Hey, I can get you your money in two weeks. He’s who’s going to win that.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. Today’s topic we’re discussing wholesaling verse flipping, and we’re going to talk about. Uh, this specific to land, but also the philosophies behind it and what we see in terms of the value to the sellers, how it gives you value to you and all things in between that.

Today I’m with Anthony and I’m with my brother and business partner, Ron Apke. Guys, welcome back.

Ron: Yeah. Happy to be here, Dan. And, uh, get on this topic. It’s a huge topic. I think with people getting into real estate investing in general, like there’s different avenues, there’s pros and cons to both. I think that we will discuss.

So I think this is a good topic to get into. For sure.

Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. People in the community do both. So I think this will be a good topic.

Dan: And it’s one of the most, when you just look at our YouTube comments in general, I don’t know if you’ve guys ever scrolled through there, but a lot of people coming into the lives and stuff.

They’re like, you guys wholesale, are you guys wholesaling? You guys assigning what’s your assignment criteria? Things like that. So this is a highly talked about topic always. That’s why we do this topic in house flipping more than a bunch of other things, because things change and we want to continue to educate and keep up with what’s going on.

And there’s also a lot of, uh, which we can get into this. Uh, episode as well. There’s a lot of regulation changes too with wholesaling.

Anthony: Yes. Yeah, very good point.

Dan: But, um Alright, cool. So I next I want to get into actually like quick overview guys of, of what our process is with land flipping so we can define both of them.

Let’s define and Ron, you can start land flipping and uh, was just start with land flipping general and our process with funding and how it works.

Ron: Yeah. So with the land flipping, I mean, it is what it sounds like it’s same thing as house flipping, like we’re buying and reselling. Um, that’s the biggest difference when we talk about these two different things is we’re, Buying the property.

We’re putting our names. We’re not looking for buyers before we buy the property. So we get some something on the contract, send it to title. Um, we line up funding, whether it’s us funding it ourselves, or we’re outsourcing funding somewhere else with a, uh, with the bank type loan or a partnership type loan, whatever it is.

We’re once we’re in title, we’re lining up. However, we’re going to pay for the property. We’re going to go through closing. We’re going to buy the property. And then after we buy it, that’s when we’re listing it. That’s when we’re trying to resell it. Right. Yeah. Anything to add to that, Anthony?

Anthony: No. It makes, um, I completely agree.

A lot of times people think that is wholesaling, but we’re buying it in our own name.

Ron: We’re buying it for a discount. That’s the one thing I didn’t say. Like, obviously when you’re flipping something, you need to buy it a steep discount. We buy for 40 to 50 percent of market value.

Dan: Yeah. And one thing we do on our end in terms of wholesaling in general is, uh, uh, we, uh, People ask if we wholesale land and we do in a way with double closes and we’ll get into that later in the episode But we wholesale a lot of land specifically you Anthony, you know how fast cash Oh It’s a fire we’re the buyer and then but we’re buying from a wholesaler essentially that But let’s talk about, we can go into that a little bit and how that works.

Cause that is a wholesale. Like we are paying them an assignment fee to acquire properties. And for those who don’t know what I’m talking about, we have a program called fast cash within land investing online, where we will buy you out a deal. So you guys bring us deals and we’ll give you 10, 20, 50 grand, uh, to take it off your plate.

And we’ll do all the work essentially and sell it. And you don’t need to worry about that. You get the money when it closes and that’s an assignment, but we’re going to talk about. Uh, wholesaling and, um, just the process behind that, not in terms of fast cash, just wholesaling in general.

Ron: So with wholesaling, you’re essentially finding a buyer before you close on the property or you’re not really finding a buyer.

You’re lining up a buyer and then you’re getting some kind of assignment fee. That’s what it’s called. Um, we can get in double closing later, Dan, but with wholesaling, like you are lining up a buyer. Whether you have a buyer’s list, a lot of people in house flipping or wholesaling houses have buyers lined up and it’s a flat 000 fee.

Kind of like we said with what we offer with fast cash. So that’s really a difference. Essentially, wholesaling is going to have a line item for an assignment fee. That’s how I kind of view wholesaling. Like it is going to have a line item for assignment fee. There’s not not multiple transactions. It’s one transaction that happens.

And that’s why that line item is on there. Where X person brought you a deal, you’re paying them X dollars to take over the deal. And that is going to be all on the, uh, closing docs. And when, uh, can you ever do that not on the closing docs and just have a backend contract? You can, but I don’t know, protection wise for the, uh, for the person who sold the contract, I’m sure you can, but, uh, I just think it can create more headaches.

Dan: So essentially you have to, let’s get into the details with wholesaling then, because you’ll have to find a buyer without owning it. Correct. Talk about that.

Ron: I think, I think it works so well in houses and other asset types because there’s buyers that buy a ton of these kind of like what, what we do with fast cash.

Like we’re a buyer for it doesn’t matter where the hell the property is. It doesn’t matter any of that. If you get a good property at a good price, we’ll offer you fast cash money. And that’s why these people who do with houses, they have a buyers list. Can you listen on Facebook trying to try to find a buyer like that?

Absolutely. I think you definitely can, but I just think it gets a little more hairy with closing docs. I think it just gets a little more shady then.

Dan: Yeah. You have anything to add to that in terms of buyers list? Or I know you work, you work, you’ve worked with past wholesalers too, though. So you understand kind of what they’ve been through and the pros and cons a little bit.

Do you have anything to add there?

Anthony: No, I think it all just depends on how you want to operate your business. There’s plenty of people that are just deal finders and they, they just want to assign contracts and that, that’s very common.

Dan: And not worry about the disposition for sale and all that, the delay of income also.

Anthony: Yeah, exactly. But there’s, there’s pros and cons risk for sure to mitigate that, but I’m sure we’ll jump into that in just a second. But

Dan: Yeah. And, and that’s the thing for if you’re wholesaling land and a lot of people do that, especially in the info lots, then you find builders, you hear that word and stuff.

And we’ve had Eli on here and that’s his whole philosophy is finding builders first and then going. So when you’re wholesaling, you kind of work the opposite of us. You find the builders and then find the deals because A 4, 000 profit. You know, if you have the builder lined up is fine. They’re going to go through with that and just assign it right for 4, 000 or 1, 500.

And those are some average margins with the info lots when they’re wholesaling to them, but you can get good builders and build that up. But that’s one of the main differences. It’s like you bet you find the buyer first and back in. And that I think is where the philosophy is extremely different. Our philosophies acquire, like, put all your resources, all your energy into acquiring undermarket value, reaching out to leads, getting for 40 percent market value, and just, you know, it’s all about, we know where we’re going to sell it.

When you’re flipping, because we own it and we control it. When you’re wholesaling, it’s like, You don’t own it. You don’t control the deal. And you’re limited to your buyer pool because you can’t just necessarily put on the MLS and find buyers that way. And it just makes things much more difficult. And that’s where the philosophy changes is the control of it and the disposition process and not backing in instead of putting all your effort on the front end and acquisitions.

Ron: Yeah, I think the, the back end person, whoever’s buying it or buying the pain, you, the wholesale fee, the assignment fee needs to be able to make some money on it for us. Yeah. When we offer someone a 10, 000, uh, assignment fee for with the fast cash, like we’re still making money. But if you’re just, if you’re trying to get market value or get it, like it needs to be a developer, it needs to be a boat or something like that, where they’re the backend person is making money too, where houses, it’s a long term investment.

So a lot of times they can get market value, like their difference between where they are and what market value is. They can get a lot of that difference in the assignment fee because the end person’s going to hold it. They’re going to rent it out. They’re going to do all that, uh, versus land, like. Our margin is in the equity we have left over after we pay you an assignment fee.

A developer’s margin is in after they develop the property. Um, so it’s definitely different having your buyers lined up if you’re trying to do that as important.

Dan: Yeah. And even if you do have an attorney, in fact, and you’re wholesaling and all of this stuff, um, there’s a lot more risk too. We’re going to get into the pros and cons and I don’t want to jump into it right now, but I think there, there can be a lot of different risk you’re associating.

Obviously financial risk is mitigated with Wholesaling, you’re not putting resources into it because you’re signing the contract. But there’s risks that come into different areas when you talk about, uh, lower profit potential and losing the deal potential and things like that, that we can get into. And I think, I think that’s a good transition though.

Um, let’s hop into that. Let’s hop into the pros and cons of each because You know, we’ll talk about land flipping first pros and cons compared to wholesaling, and then we’ll get into double close because I think that’s a good barrier to entry. But, uh, let’s get into that. You want to start around?

Ron: Yeah, I think wholesale and let’s just go wholesaling first.

I think pros are, I think it’s less money. In, I think, uh, having your buyers lined up like you, I think you can make money faster. Quicker in wholesaling. I do think the ceilings speed. Yeah. Speed to making money. Uh, the risk mitigation, you don’t need money, you don’t need funding partners for all this. No money out.

You need buyers. Yeah, no money out for the deals. Um, so I think that’s huge for wholesaling. Um, I think going into the cons, I don’t, do you guys have any more pros for that?

Dan: Well, the, you said risk in general. And these are really all the cons of land flipping if you just look at them, it takes longer, right, speed, risk.

But yeah, when you’re looking at risk in general, it comes down to things when you put money out and you’re land flipping and you have money out and you have Either a funding partner or whatever and something’s wrong with the land and then it comes back. There’s risk of of that as well I think Ron .

Ron: Yeah, and I mean we run into those situations not regularly, but it happens where There’s due diligence that we find out from the first buyer after we listed the property We already have our 20, 000 out. The first buyer tells us something that we didn’t know about the land. We’re like, okay, that’s fine I don’t believe you whatever it is Second buyer comes back and says the same thing or like, Oh crap, we get something might be wrong with this land.

We got to actually figure out, um, one thing as you’re saying this, uh, another pro is I think you do not need to know the asset. You don’t need to know the asset the same because if you find a buyer, it doesn’t matter. Oh my gosh. Wholesalers can be really bad with this. Yeah. You don’t need to be able to comp out properties like you do.

Like it makes you way more efficient. But if you’re doing this, especially for land, which is extremely hard to comp, like you can just. post it up for 5, 000 more than what your contract is. If you find someone great, but if not, you’re going to screw over the seller.

Dan: But I do think the good wholesalers do good due diligence because they’re trying to, they’re not wasting time.

But Oh my gosh, if you look at my Instagram direct messages and just see, Hey, looking to for a buyer here and they give me a piece and then I, I don’t even look at them anymore. But when I would look at them and um, I don’t say that in a bad way. Like if you guys have a serious inquiry, I’m always open ears for sure.

But 99. 9 percent of the time it was properties, 400 percent of market value. Yeah. Mike. Or it’s in a wetlands. And they didn’t even know it’s in a wetlands. So I think wholesalers can stand out. And I’m not trying to, uh, you know, talk bad about any party or anything. It’s very generalized approach. But the good wholesalers, cause I’ve met them and I met with a guy in Tampa and he was giving us some good leads and he does tremendous due diligence.

That’s how good ones can stand out is by actually doing the work for the builder. You know, that’s, you’re going to make more money. You’re going to build more relationships and trust on that.

Anthony: Yeah. And I would say just an extra pro to that is, Like you guys are mentioning, you have the opportunity to test out a market too, with essentially no risk.

Dan: True.

Anthony: So you can really give you a good idea. And then if things look good, then you can really double down on your marketing.

Ron: Yeah, I agree. I think it’s really low point of entry. That’s what I like about like, and a lot of people transition to our business model from trying to make 2000, 3, 000 assignment fees for a couple of months.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You, you built up 15, 000, 20, 000 and now you can like, okay, now I want to make this a full time thing. Go over to flipping. Um, Going into cons from there, I think margins are huge, huge.

Dan: I think less than margin. Yes, it is bad margins, but I think more importantly, and Anthony have been talking, it’s the, the spread per deal, the profit per deal.

Ron: Yeah. It’s so low. You got to do a lot of work for sometimes three, 4, 000. Like doing as much work as some wholesalers say they do for like 4, 000 profits, stuff like that. Like you need a builder, you need all this different stuff and just a lot of work.

Dan: You need to go through title. You need to go close. You got to sign docs. You got to, this stuff adds up and I’m not saying don’t go after a three. They’re smaller than that. I see these guys checks. They’re posting like a lot of them are 2, 000 checks, which is fine at first. Like if that’s going to get you up and motivate you in the morning, just know that’s the same amount of work of buying a property for 200 and selling it for two 30.

And taking a 30 grand spread, you know, and you’re going to have a better, you’re providing more value doing that too.

Ron: We had two deals in our deal review two nights ago from the same person. I think they were both like five 5, 500 each. Um, obviously you need the capital. Like that is a thing. You do need the capital, um, or capital partners, but she was like 21 grand or something.

Dan: Correct. But I’m saying even when you do, and we’re going to get into, we do a wholesale deals. We just do it through a double closing method. I’m Define double closing in this as a wholesale because it really is when you look at it, there are some changes, um, but the philosophy as a whole is similar to it, but I’m saying the, if you guys are, you know, doing spread to 2, 000 spread deals where you’re making 2, 000 on a sign, what I was saying is go after 50 and have in cell for 65 or buy for 100.

doing a wholesale still just going after bigger deals. I don’t like those tiny margin deals. I just don’t.

Ron: I think another con is like you’re restricted by your buyers list. Um, it’s hard to list these properties. Like you can get a, what’s it called? Attorney in fact, all this stuff. It’s, it’s, Difficult to really list these.

And there’s so many regulations with these things, um, changing. Yeah. It’s changing really fast. That’s another time too, is how much, how more like South Carolina, you cannot, like most attorneys are not going to do wholesales for you. It is very, very difficult. The, the wording, I think the verbiage and like the law is kind of, uh, Being questioned, maybe right now, but there’s just a lot of states that are adopting things because the reason they’re doing this is because how much it screws over sellers.

There’s so many BS wholesalers who are getting sellers under contract for 400 percent of market value, and there’s no money to be made. And just the sellers just sit and wait.

Dan: Yeah. and they have, they’re over promised and under delivered consistently. And I don’t blame them for changing the laws on this.

Um, we have a solution. We’re going to come that we, that we do a lot of in our community at land investing online. And we’ll get to that later, but I want to ask you guys, what, what do you think the biggest con is? And I don’t think you’ve touched this one yet.

Anthony: I would think if anything, I would say speed.

Um, especially cause like how you were mentioning Ron, you’re only, you’re only as good, I would say as your buyers list that you have. And if you’re wholesaling and you’re coming across someone like us, we can do an all cash offer. We’re closing in two to three weeks. If you’re looking to assign a contract, you’re going to have to explain that to the seller.

It’s a little bit harder of a pitch. And I think just with With this and the efficiency that we have with all cash and we’re the one buying it, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to get them under contract for us.

Dan: It does to get them under contract. But in terms of speed of getting your money that you make is typically faster with wholesaling because then you can turn around and sell it quick and you don’t have to go through.

Two closings essentially. Yeah. You go through one and if you have a buyers lined up, the average transaction speed wholesaling is, and from what I’ve seen is faster. Do you agree? Do you guys agree? Is faster get your money? Yeah. To get your money. Um, your money, you’re right. Yeah. Not necessarily the other person’s money.

The on in land flipping the, it’s the opposite. They get their money quick. It’s easier to lock up the deals because you get ’em in two weeks, but Yep. Um, and then. It takes a little bit longer to sell. You put it on the market. It sits, then you have to go through title again. Rather, if you’re wholesaling, you, it takes, uh, it’s less value to the, um, seller, like you’re saying, but then once you do get them under contract, the actual process of getting the money, cause it’s just a quick assignment essentially, but competition that you have. That’s a good one too.

Ron: I was thinking like competition slash like offer proposition. You know this one. Value proposition. Cause I think wholesaling has such a low.

Dan: Butt what happens because of that? Value proposition. What happens? Speed of money. No, yes, but what else? I don’t know. Keep thinking through what happens because of the, uh, when you wholesale deals, what happens?

No one?

Ron: No.

Dan: You lose deals. It’s a good point. More people. You’re, you’re spending, you have a 90 day, 120 day contract. .

Ron: So your offer. Yeah, I got you.

Dan: IT’s the offer. It all leads to it. It’s the value that leads to it. It’s not, uh, this is the result. Yeah. The lack of value that leads to it. The result is you can lose deals.

And, and let’s just give an example. If you, uh, if I go to Anthony and he owns 10 acres in Hunt County, Michigan, and I asked him, you know, to pay 50, 000 for his property. Yeah. And I’m like, Hey, I need 120 days to close. And then Ron comes in and offers them 40, 000. And he’s like, Hey, I can get you your money in two weeks.

He’s like, I got an offer. Uh, for 50, but you know, you can get them in two weeks. Who’s going to win that? Ron can still negotiate up and be, you know, get there. But he’s like, Ron uses his negotiation skills. He’s like, listen, a lot of those deals fall out. Um, he doesn’t even have a buyer lined up. That’s why he needs it.

I can get your money right now. Who wins that negotiation? Ron does. Um, another example is, Hey, Anthony, I want to buy your five acres. Same thing. A neighbor, Sue comes in within 50 days later. I still haven’t, I haven’t communicated with you that much. I’ve talked to you like twice since then. I kind of forgot.

Sue comes in, Sue goes, Hey, uh, if you’re ever willing to sell that property, um, I, I, I live right here. I want some extra land. What happens then? He sells to Sue that stuff happens. That’s why closing and communication. The speed is so important when land flipping is the long you drag something out. The more likely they are to fall out because life happens.

Their kids come and give them opinion. Their neighbors come in, they don’t need the money anymore. Whatever happens, happens. And that’s the biggest thing in my mind is like the lack of value leads to losing deals and less product and all these different things trickle from it.

Ron: Yeah. People always ask, like, how do we buy properties for such a discount?

Like a steep, steep discount, 50, 60 percent under market value. And like, that is the answer. Speed is the answer. That’s something you do not have. Um, With wholesaling in terms of the proposition that you’re offering the sellers Um, there are the good ones though have a builder lined up like good people who are good at wholesaling.

Dan: That’s why I feel bad for the term wholesaling how it’s gotten such a bad rep because there’s a low barrier to enter It’s like it’s like Dropshipping.

It’s a low barrier to entering. It attracts people who aren’t willing to put in the work and do that. So 90 something percent of them are, but go on.

Ron: Yeah. I think that’s the biggest thing is like that speed value proposition that you can offer with flipping. Um, but there’s such a wide array. There’s so many crap land flippers.

There’s so many crap holes. Like every industry, you have a lower tier, but the lower tier is worse. When the worse and bigger, it’s worse. When the, uh, When the, when the entry point is because anyone can come in exactly. And that’s how so many people are doing it. They’re dialing five calls a day. How many are getting someone under contract for 120 percent of market value and they’re screwing them over.

And that’s why all these laws are coming.

Dan: It’s the same thing. Like how many people are out there trying to manufacture, you know, high. Tech equipment and stuff like that. The barrier to entry for that is like, okay, research and development. Okay. We got to invest in product and all this and it’s millions of dollars.

Right. So the more money and, you know, time it takes to develop something. Uh, the less people are going to come in it. Typically it’s just barrier to enter and for wholesaling, it’s extremely low.

Ron: Yeah. I think going into flipping from there, Dan, like it’s kind of just the opposite. Honestly, flipping you can, I think you can build a legitimate business around flipping as far as like higher margins, higher margin per deal, lower competition.

The cons are there’s. More money and like you have the funding partners, all this stuff. Um, but what other cons, like in terms of if you’re comparing, well, don’t just pass through that. You got to close the deal and fun. That’s a big one. Yeah. Getting, getting money for the deal is an important thing.

There’s so much money out there though. Now that’s why I kind of pass over it really fast. If you’re involved,

Dan: And it’s the process though, and it’s getting approval and it’s sending it in and then going back and forth and getting your due diligence back to them.

Ron: It’s a whole thing. Having to review deals, I think having to actually know market value or having to understand the skill.

That is a skill that we often overlook because we’ve been doing this for such a long time. The skill of being able to predict market value of a piece of land within 10 percent either way, uh, is very, if you can do it.

Dan: Yeah. You want to touch on that funding aspect of what you see from your end in terms of, because you’re actually, On the front end of assigning these deals with the fast cash versus this.

And you can, you understand how their minds work with this. So, uh, some of them are just lazy and don’t want to, I shouldn’t say that they don’t want to do the due diligence. Um, I shouldn’t call it lazy cause there’s a lot of people who take fast cash cause they want more marketing money. It’s a good offer.

Um, it’s an extremely good offer and it gets people out of the deal and money quick, but you see their mindset of why they accept fast cash versus, uh, You know, the traditional deal funding.

Anthony: Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely a mixed bag of the two. Some people who prefer fast cash, they want their marketing, um, capital back quickly and depending on the scope of the deal.

I mean, we’ve done fast cash offers of like 150 to 200 grand, right? Like, so you could still make a boatload of money and faster. Yeah. Yeah. With fast cash, which can be phenomenal, but a lot of people. Like to do traditional deal funding because they want to take something full cycle too. They want to work with someone that’s experienced.

There still is very minimal risk doing traditional deal funding. I’m sure we’ll get into that. Uh, but in terms of what we look for, it’s like you have to do the due diligence. There’s plenty of times to where people will send something in with, without really an analysis and kind of put it on us. Not the best look, but again, If it’s someone that’s willing to put in the work and they’re asking questions like those are the things that we look for.

And so you really have to be smart and strategic with who you’re building those relationships with and making sure you can grow and scale with them.

Dan: Absolutely. And, and we get tremendous, most of the people we work with are very, very good with their due diligence. We have a good community of that and everyone, um, seems to do really well and work with you and they want to make it work and they want to work with us.

And it’s a win win relationship and everyone’s happy, which, which we love, but traditional deal funding is essentially for those who are new or most people watching might know this, but it’s just where. Anthony will put up 100 percent of the money and, uh, it will be a profit split on the back end, depending on how long it takes, your experience, the deal margins, all of that.

It can, the profit can range, but you usually keep majority of the profit. Um, let’s talk about some others. So, uh, the biggest pro for land flipping over wholesaling, I think, is the, uh, margins in the deals.

Ron: 100%, like you can You, you have so much control of what you can sell it for. You have time on your side and not saying you want to hold it forever.

There’s just a lot you can do projects with it. Like that’s a huge thing. You can’t do projects. If you’re wholesaling a property, you can propose that to the end buyer. Like if someone comes to us and that’s what I’m really excited about is like. We’re paying assignment fees to these people and we see the project based opportunity.

Um, and I think that’s a huge, huge feature where maybe they’re under contract for 80 percent of market value for the 30 acres. But like we see like, okay, we can sell this for so much more once we split it into three, four parcels, whatever it is. Um, there’s a lot that go into that. I think a lot that goes into that, but I think, uh, just the restrictions of that is important.

Dan: I agree. And then also you have, uh, you know, when you’re actually flipping there, there are no laws against flipping. So on the, you know, Other side of wholesaling where all the laws are changing and everything flipping. There are no real laws on there’s some new mail laws and things, but that’s not actually the process of flipping land.

That’s just solicitation laws. Um, and then you have the speed. So the speed of land flipping, you’ll close quicker on the acquisition side, like Anthony was going into. Uh, but a lot of times to get your actual money would take a longer cause You know, say you go under contract, you close, you put it on the market, you put on Zillowland.

com, you control the deal, right? So when you control the deal, you can put it wherever you can do these projects, whatever it is. But then by the time you sell it 30 days later, it goes through title. You’re not closing. You don’t get your money for a little bit longer. And that’s after title on the front end.

So the seller contacts you, you got two weeks for title on that side, due diligence, everything, maybe three weeks. He closed the property on the buy side. Then it takes a month to sell your seven weeks in and then title again, maybe two, three weeks. So you’re looking at, it can be months and months, uh, depending on how quick you sell the property and, and, uh, you know, contract on the back end, the sales contract, but that’s definitely a big one too is speed.

What else for pros and cons of land flipping? Let’s stay with pros.

Ron: I think just being able to build something like I think there’s like, I don’t know, I guess you can do it with the whole city. No, no, no, no, no. I’m not saying actual structures. I’m just saying like the business sustainability. I think you said building.

I think building. Um, yeah, I think the sustainability of business model, like there’s a lot of moving parts. It’s land investment. Yeah. Broad term. Yep. How we do it changes a little bit, but land investing is sustainable is what you’re saying. For sure. Yeah. There’s so many different, like, we’re not doing things the exact same way we did things uh, 24, 36 months ago.

Dan: We used to send out offers for 18%.

Ron: Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Look back at our mailers from year one. Yeah. Exactly. Strategies change with that. Um, opportunities. Like. When, when you get into flipping, like what it’s going to evolve to is more project based things and filling in with some of those like really rural buying things for 40 percent flipping and whatever, but those project based things, then you have relationships with surveyors.

You have all these different relationships that go into like building a real business. Um, I don’t know. It’s different. You can definitely build a wholesaling business like that. It’s just different, different volume, lower volume. You don’t need to do as many deals in a year to make a hundred grand. You can do two deals a year and make a hundred grand.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, you can do one deal a year and make more than that if you, depending on what deals you target. But, um, yeah. So, so far we have, the risk does rise a little bit with land flipping, um, and we can talk about that a little bit, but we have ways to mitigate that risk. We have good, good ways to mitigate that risk.

And I think the biggest thing is, you know, we have a three step solution of how we walk through. And when the risk is low. We, we flip, right? And let’s talk about, uh, different types of risk in land investing, and we talked about that in the wholesaling, but like, land comes back bad, right? You buy it and something happens, um, you know, you have the risk of it not selling, you have the risk of the deal funding’s money, or if you have traditional funding, risk is broad with this, but in general, there’s, uh, there’s virtually no risk with wholesaling, right?

Um, and that drives why you have a lower profit because the value goes down, but you’re taking on risk to make more profit here.

Ron: Yeah, for sure. I think there’s like three different types of risk. Um, I think land quality is one. I think price is to price. Increased price is going to increase your risk on a deal.

You have lower margin, uh, something going wrong. And then you also have, uh, like legal risk as far as, uh, uh, like risk with the restrictions on the property, poor due diligence, almost what I call it. Um, so you have those three types of risk and those three types of risk, like all can reduce or eliminate your margin.

Um, if you find out something after you bought the property, like, okay, this property, this road is closed half a year. We literally had a property we bought once where you could only access at nine months of the year. Um, that was a huge issue because you can’t build on something like that. It’s literally a wrecked property then.

Uh, so that legal aspect, you also find properties where there’s Defects in the land, which should be able to be caught most of the time. And then price is something that’s very like, you should know if you’re buying it for 70 percent of market value or 30 to 50, you should know the difference. And once you get higher, like that margin just decreases and there’s just this risk and buyers not being willing to pay what you think they would have paid.

Dan: Yeah. Anything to add to this risk profile?

Anthony: No, but just one thing to piggyback off of that. I think that’s the reason why we love this land flipping business model so much, because if you utilize traditional deal funding, the investors essentially taking on all the risk, right? I mean, Still do your due diligence.

You want to have a good relationship. You have no risk. Exactly. And all those things that are laid out, if you work with an experienced land investor, you know, they’ll make sure to help you out. You know, I mean, those are things that we do. People who are newer, make sure you do in the work, but also we’re going to make sure it’s a good deal for us too.

Dan: Yeah. We didn’t touch on that enough. So essentially with traditional deal funding, since the, it’s a profit split on the back end, there’s no fixed return. There’s no credit scores. There’s no banks involved. It’s. Us three looking at your property saying we’ll take on this risk. You have no risk. We’ll put up the money, but you got to give us this profit on when it sells.

Um, and that’s why people join to that literally mitigates the risk for, for people joining tremendously, especially while you’re learning. It gets another set of eyes on it. Um, and we’re going to be strict with the properties too. Like we’re going to make sure we’re buying the right asset because the risk is on us, you know, and that’s why we do our due diligence as well as you do them and to confirm everything as well.

But. Alright, so we talked about pros, cons, all that stuff, the philosophy, what the two are, we can come now to how we, let’s just talk about how we utilize it and what we teach, uh, cause we do both, so there’s a method called double closing, for those who don’t know, I, I bet some, most know, it’s where you, essentially it’s, it’s, it is wholesaling, It’s not wholesaling technically, but when you look at the philosophy, it really is because what you’re doing, you’re getting the property under contract to sell for 90, 120 days, whatever that looks like.

And, um, then you’re putting it, then you have an attorney in fact and everything, and you’re putting it on the market essentially and trying to find buyers on, on MLS and, uh, uh, land. com and Facebook marketplace and everywhere you can. But then on close day, what you’re doing, you’re essentially just swapping hands, um, In one day for both transactions.

So it goes from the seller. You know, let’s just call her Barb, from Barb to me, and then from me to the future, uh, future buyer. So you’re doing both transactions all in one day. It’s called a double close. It’s common. And, and the reason it’s so common is because of the changing laws. So we’re not wholesaling, we’re not assigning, there’s no assignment contracts on it.

It’s two different transactions, two different set of paperworks, two different deeds. The deed’s gonna go into my name. And, and that’s why I love it is because the sustainability of it versus, you know, Assigning there’s more complexions to it for sure. There’s some different things. You have two transactions more moving parts, but Anything to add to that process as a whole and then I’ll talk about what we do to balance the two.

Ron: Yeah, I think, um, the, there’s no line item, like the difference is guys, there’s no line item assignment fee because it’s actually two separate transactions. Like this is two transactions. That property is moving hands twice in a single day. Um, there’s no line item there. Um, you have a little more freedom to list and you don’t have a buyer’s pull.

Like for these, you are not, you don’t have a buyer’s pull lined up. This is for, and you can talk about it, Dan, a specific situation where there’s a, a seller just as stuck on a number and it doesn’t make sense for you to buy it as is.

Dan: For sure. So I think, uh, step. Well, let’s just talk about the process then of how my mind would rationalize balancing these two.

It’s like, when do you go for double closes? When do you go for land flips? How do I know the two? Am I targeting one mailer, a double close and one mailer? That’s not how we do it. We’re going to target everything to flip because of the reasons we said in the pros and cons. There’s more money in it. Uh, yeah.

Which is pretty much everything. There’s more money. You’re going to make more money. You’re going to make more profit. You’re going to be happier and have more financial freedom, right? That’s why we do it. So we’re going to target everything to flip. So let’s just use blind offers. So I sent Anthony a mailer out five acres to buy it for, you know, 40, 000 option one.

What I want the very most where there’s the most profit is to get that contract at 40 because if I price correctly, I know it’s going to sell for 95 or whatever you priced out, right? That’s goal number one. Goal number two, Anthony calls me back is to negotiate with Anthony. Okay? He, he needs a little bit more money.

He’s not happy at 40. He asked for 52. Can’t do 52. Um, but you know, I can get you up to 44. I can get you up to 44. I talked to my partners always good, and that’s, that’s the role at 44. How’s that sound? Anthony? Anthony, uh, says, yes, that’s goal number two. Come up with a price that still makes sense. to go back to and get your deal funding.

The margins are still there for traditional deal funding. Option number three, Anthony says, I can’t take anything less than 60, 000, right? I think this property is going to sell for 90, whatever, but Anthony can’t take anything less than 60. So then it’s like, okay, do I have 60, 000 to give them? There’s 30, 000 in this deal still.

We think the margins get a little bit tighter. Um, deal funding is not going to work at that price. I can’t get, you know, loans and deal funding for that necessarily. Yeah. He won’t come down. He bought this property in 2018 for 60, 000. And they’re stuck there. You tried to negotiate. You went through option one, you went through option two, and now you’re here.

That’s when you’re like, all right, Anthony, I tried to get you and negotiate, you know, in the 40, I offered you 43, 000 or 44, 000. You said no to that. You won’t come off that 60 number. I can get you that 60, 000. I’m just going to need more time. I can’t close in two weeks. Like I promised I’m going to need 120 days.

Uh, it’s going to line things up and assure that I can find someone on the back end that’s going to going to use this land and buy this land. But I, I can get you that 44, 000 next week. If you want to go this route, I just need 120 days. How do you, how’s that sound? Then Anthony says yes. And then we’ll go into a double close option.

Ron: Yeah. That’s, that’s the pitch. And I think the people who really believe in the value proposition of the two, um, are the people who do the best. Like if you aren’t, you’re losing so much money if you’re not offering that. Or if you’re not, you don’t want to skip to that. That’s the key, Dan. Don’t want to skip.

Do not want to skip from the 44, 000 offer to like, okay,

Dan: if anything, skip the double close and ignore what I said and do the first two parts. And like, because there’s people making millions just off the first two, but I’m telling you this method works.

Ron: Giving sellers the option. Like when they are stuck and you’re not getting them off that number, giving sellers the two options and just being very blunt.

44, 000 you can get it next week. 60, 000 give me 90, 120 days and I’ll get you that. And you want to, you want to be able to know that that property’s gonna sell for 90. You don’t want to screw people over with this and waste your time selling properties or listing properties that, um, buy for 60 sell for 67.

Like we don’t want to do that. Um, but, uh, if you have the margin in there, this works unbelievably and you’ll add hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Anthony: Yeah, because there’s so many leads that will come in to where someone’s wanting something closer to market value. And as long as you have good margins for a double close, like, why would you not want to take that opportunity?

Dan: Spread more than margin, I think, though.

Anthony: Yeah, good point.

Dan: Because if you have a 200, 000, and that’s what I’m trying to, when you’re double closing, Margin, yes, but spread more like margins

Ron: It can be a number too, though.

Dan: Yeah, it can be, but we’re thinking, I think a margin, I came from distribution and it’s a percentage in my head.

Okay. So, uh, what I’m thinking in my head is percentage of margin, like Mark, cause I came from distribution and everything was based on profit margins. Right. And the percentage that you’re selling. Uh, for this, I’m talking spread like buy for 200, sell for 250. That is a good spread right there. If you can sell it for 200 and people are doing that and that’s, you’re going to make 48, 000 after closing costs or whatever it ends up being.

But there’s one other thing I want to get into. Before we wrap this up and there’s other risks besides money. So Anthony, um, agreed to 44, 000 that’s, or agreed this 40, 000. Uh, and he signed the contract and sent it back to me. I go on my, the land portal. com I’m looking at, I’m doing my due diligence. Three quarters of the properties wet.

Um, and sloped, not great. But, but there is a building spot and it’s dry right there. Uh, kind of like that Wisconsin deal we were looking at the other day in the deal review, you know, like, you know, three fifths of it, wetlands, whatever it is, part of it’s there. And I just don’t like my deal funding partners don’t feel good closing this because of that.

I don’t feel great because it’s all wet. You know, first thing, same thing happens here. First thing I’m going to try to get it to a price where maybe I can still close. Uh, if it makes sense in my head, maybe I have to go from 40 to 25 or 40 to 20 and you’ll get those deals. Don’t be scared to negotiate.

You’ll get those deals. You got to tell him like he knows. That three quarters his property’s wet. Right? So don’t be scared to negotiate down, but when that still doesn’t make sense, it’s just too risky. And it’s in an HOA or something too. Like those are common situations. It’s just like there’s nothing built in that HOA, it’s in Asheville, it’s 150 grand for acre and a half.

Mm-Hmm. . And nothing’s built in that HOA, but there are a couple million dollar properties. Like you see the upside there too, but it’s just risky to buy. That’s when you go to the double close also. So there’s money risk, and then there’s also the actual asset risk of the the land.

Ron: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s, uh, it will eliminate headaches on the backside where you’re buying a property that you’re, you know, when you’re buying a property, like, I don’t know about this, like, you know, when you’re doing that shit, um, and like, it will eliminate those headaches on the back end if you’re proposing double quotes, you don’t want to overdo it where you’re trying to do it for every property that you’re a little nervous about, um, but, When you’re just, you don’t want to deal with a property where you don’t have margin on the back end, but you potentially have 100, 000.

You just don’t know based on the asset because the asset is so much different than all the comps. I think that’s the biggest thing. If you can’t find comps for like kind assets, that’s when you kind of have to do that because the asset has some kind of defect, um, that, um, Doesn’t really have comps around it.

Dan: Yeah. And the risk is really just the asset, which is the land or the price. That’s how you have to look at the risk. And you’ll run into these a lot, a lot. And we say it more and more every week. Like if we don’t like a property, we used to just say, don’t buy this. And I always say, look for a double close potentially.

Ron: I feel like we ask, we always are asking, like, we always say, sorry, not asking where it’s like, man, if this was good land, like this is a no brainer. And like, when you’re saying that in your head, it’s probably like, okay, I need to propose something.

Dan: That means it’s a good market. You know, high price, good price, price, profit, potential is good.

The acreage. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Anything to add to that?

Anthony: No, I completely agree. The only thing you’re limiting yourself with a double close is some people they’ll submit it for deal funding for like fast cash, or if they try to go for a double close, they still try to think they could subdivide it. You’re not really going to have those capabilities when it comes to development.

Dan: It’s tough there. There are ways, but it gets really niche and there’s creative financing ways where you can go to the seller and kind of, you could do a profit splits with the seller. To and go to the seller and say, Hey, listen, I can improve your land for you. You want to take 25 percent of the profit. I guarantee you to get your, uh, principal back based on this number.

And then I’ll give you 25 percent of the profit. After that, we can make huge things happen. You live in New York, the properties, there are ways to do that, but it gets very complex quick, but there’s a ton of money in creative financing in general, but we’ll save that for a whole nother episode. As always, guys, thanks for joining.

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