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Six Simple Ways to Improve Raw Land and Boost Profits

When it comes to land flipping, the traditional approach is often simple—buy raw land at a discount, hold it for a short period, and then resell it at a higher price. This straightforward model has a lot of appeal. 

It requires minimal investment in the land itself, with no need for construction, infrastructure, or costly modifications. But on certain occasions, we’ll go beyond this model, making strategic improvements to increase the marketability and profitability of a property. 

The six improvements discussed in this article can add tremendous value, especially when aligned with a buyer’s development goals or to meet local requirements.

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Adding Value Without Breaking Ground

Traditional flipping works because raw land, by itself, is an attractive investment for many buyers. However, some land parcels can reach their highest potential only through specific improvements.

When an opportunity calls for it, we’ll assess the benefits of adding certain improvements, often those that enhance a property’s buildability or development rights. This allows us to keep costs low, while still increasing the land's appeal to serious buyers.

The Power of Entitlements

One major improvement we consider is obtaining entitlements. Entitlements are the rights an owner or developer has to develop a property for a specific use, such as residential or commercial building.

Acquiring these rights typically involves presenting detailed development plans to the local city or township board and securing their approval to proceed with those plans. 

This step can make a property far more desirable to potential buyers because it gives them certainty that they can develop the land according to their vision.

This process of obtaining entitlements is valuable because it provides a clear path for future development. Buyers know they’re investing in a property that’s not only legally approved for a specific use but also cleared by local authorities.

While we rarely break ground ourselves, obtaining entitlements means that when a developer or builder purchases the land, they can hit the ground running, with fewer hurdles and delays. 

It’s a powerful way to add value to the property without ever physically altering it.

The Importance of Perc Tests

Another improvement we might pursue is conducting a percolation, or “perc,” test. This test evaluates the soil’s ability to drain water, a critical factor for properties intended for residential or commercial development that require a septic system.

If the property fails the perc test, it won’t support a septic system, making it unsuitable for building—a fact that will substantially impact the property’s value.

Most serious buyers will request a perc test before they commit to a purchase. However, when we take this step proactively, we can eliminate uncertainty about the property’s usability, which can speed up the sale process and attract more committed buyers.

 The cost of a perc test can vary, but it’s a worthwhile investment to provide buyers with more certainty about the land they’re buying.

When we know a property has passed its perc test, it becomes a much stronger asset in the market, as potential buyers don’t have to worry about its development viability.

Tree Trimming and Removal

Tree removal can significantly enhance a property's appeal by opening up scenic views and creating a spacious, welcoming feel. 

Selectively removing smaller trees and brush, while preserving larger, mature trees, can create a "park-like" setting that attracts buyers looking for residential or recreational sites. 

This approach also allows buyers to envision potential uses, like building a home or setting up a campsite.

Costs vary based on property size and tree density, but targeted tree removal typically offers a high return on investment. Be sure to hire a professional to avoid over-clearing, which can diminish the property’s natural charm.

Demolish Old Structures or Remove Junk

Trash and structure removal is one of the most effective ways to improve a raw land property quickly and increase its marketability. 

Properties often come with old, dilapidated structures, piles of junk, or debris left by previous owners, all of which can detract from the land’s appeal and reduce its value in the eyes of potential buyers.

Clearing out these unwanted elements not only makes the property look cleaner and more inviting but also gives buyers a blank canvas to visualize their own plans, from building a home to using the land recreationally.

Removing structures like abandoned sheds or mobile homes can be more involved, sometimes requiring permits and specialized equipment, but it’s often worth the investment. 

For less extensive cleanups, like removing trash or smaller debris, a simple DIY approach may be sufficient, saving on labor costs.

On larger projects, professional junk removal services can handle heavy or hazardous materials safely and efficiently, ensuring compliance with local regulations. 

Though costs can vary widely, clearing the property can be a game-changer in terms of first impressions, making it easier to sell and potentially increasing your asking price.

Add a Gravel Driveway for Better Access

 Adding a gravel driveway is a smart and relatively low-cost improvement that can significantly boost a property's usability and appeal. 

Especially on raw land without established access points, a gravel driveway provides an immediate, practical benefit: it offers a defined entrance and makes it easier for potential buyers to drive onto the property, even if they don’t have off-road vehicles.

 This improvement not only enhances accessibility but also helps buyers visualize the land’s potential for future development, such as building a home or placing a mobile structure.

Gravel driveways can vary in cost, depending on the length, soil type, and any necessary excavation. 

For instance, building a driveway on sandy soil is generally less costly, often around $1.50–$2 per square foot, while clay or rocky terrain may require a thicker base layer to support the gravel, which can increase the price to about $4 per square foot.

This small investment can go a long way in making the land feel more “ready to use,” and the clean, structured entrance can boost curb appeal significantly.

Add a Slab Foundation to Attract Buyers

Adding a slab foundation is an excellent way to attract buyers interested in placing mobile homes, RVs, or even building small structures on raw land.

This simple addition offers an instant, sturdy foundation, saving potential buyers the hassle and cost of laying down their own. By installing a concrete slab, you're not only providing a physical base but also helping buyers picture the site as a functional, buildable space—especially appealing for those looking for a ready-to-use property.

The cost for a slab foundation generally ranges from $5–$10 per square foot, depending on site preparation, soil type, and thickness. The initial prep work might include clearing and leveling, which ensures that the slab is stable and suited for different structures.

Slabs can add value in areas where zoning allows for mobile homes, cabins, or RV pads, which is a selling point for buyers who want quick setup options.

Just be thoughtful about its placement on the property to preserve natural beauty and maintain flexibility for different types of buyers—some may prioritize a central location, while others prefer a more secluded spot tucked into the landscape.

When Improvements Make Sense

While we generally focus on raw land flipping with minimal changes, strategic improvements like tree removal, gravel driveways, or entitlements can make a substantial difference.

Each of these six upgrades are relatively simple but can have a significant impact on the property’s value and marketability. By carefully choosing which improvements to pursue, you can enhance your property’s appeal and boost your profit potential—all without the need for large-scale construction.

Improving raw land doesn’t have to be complex or costly. 

With these simple enhancements, you can make your property more attractive to buyers, increase market value, and position yourself for greater profit when it’s time to sell!

Listen to the Latest Podcast

View Transcript here

Ron (00:15.787)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Real Estate Investing Podcast. I’m your host Ron Apke joined today by Dylan Rusch. Dylan, really excited to have you on here. Dylan was here. Do know when you were here last Dylan?

Dylan Rusch (00:24.642)
Yeah, I think I was in person in your guys studio in about early April. So it’s good to be back and hopefully give a report to everyone who’s been following your podcast.

Ron (00:32.393)
Yeah. Yeah, so if you guys haven’t watched his first one, was, when’d you start, Dylan?

Dylan Rusch (00:38.86)
I started my first mail hit about this time last year. So I’m about a year in to actually doing this whole land investing craziness.

Ron (00:42.165)
Okay.

Ron (00:46.963)
Love it. So yeah, you’re a year in, just like Landon who we had on. yeah, getting an update on yours, where are you kind of right now in your business? Let’s jump right into it.

Dylan Rusch (00:56.984)
Perfect, yeah, so I think when we met in April when I was on the pod, we talked about being right around 200K in profit. That probably ended up being right around 120K in profit, and that’s after paying off investors, after closing costs and all that good stuff. A lot of that’s just based on, I think I had a deal fall through, and then maybe some deals not selling where I thought they might. But now we’re recording this in late October, and I think I’m right around 400K in revenue. 290K is really,

realized net revenue again after paying investors and closing costs. That’s nine deals all the way through at that 290K realized revenue standpoint. And then at about 110 from an expected revenue standpoint, that’s three deals either on the market or under contract, which gets me to that 400K number. So really excited, a lot of progress since the podcast and certainly looking back a year ago today, couldn’t imagine where I am now, so it’s exciting.

Ron (01:55.23)
It’s crazy. Let’s back up to when you first got started in land investing and kind of what that looked like. What kind of got you into this business? Because I think backing up and like we can kind of we can obviously take it forward from there. What got you started in land investing? Like what brought you to it?

Dylan Rusch (02:10.958)
Yeah, so I was interested in personal finance for a while. I kind of talked about that on the previous podcast and then got into real estate investing. have a couple of Airbnb. So that pairs really nicely with the active income that land investing provides. And as I got busier, we have two kids now, my wife and I do, we, was just looking for something that I could do remotely and maybe put the kids down and then go work on the land investing business. And this really fit well with my lifestyle. And it’s been such a huge blessing for my family and I and looking

I’m really looking forward to the end of this year and into 2025, what I and my team can accomplish.

Ron (02:47.98)
So you were rental properties and like that’s the thing I always tell people because they’re trying to quit their job from rental properties like it’s not really possible unless you have five, six million dollars cash ready to put into rental properties. If you’re improving them and then refinancing you can get cash from that obviously but talk about that a little as far as I don’t think you ever went into rental properties trying to like quit your job but it’s just an avenue to build long term wealth.

Dylan Rusch (03:15.02)
Yeah, exactly, long-term wealth, long-term assets. The cash flow is great, especially with short-term rental investing. And yet, just…

almost use it as supplemental income, the rental properties piece. And then what drew me to land investing is just how you can scale, how you can do this from wherever. You can close big deals, small deals from anywhere in the country, have a property that’s closing in a couple weeks in North Carolina, just closed a big deal last Friday that I never even visited. So that just shows how you can scale within land investing that you can’t do with true rental real estate.

Ron (03:49.109)
Yeah, exactly, I think that’s a huge point of a lot of people. You need a cash cow to get out of your job and that’s a lot of people’s goal is to create more freedom. What does, I always ask that for people, is like what does freedom look like for you? I know you’re still working a job part time I believe. What does kind of freedom look like for you? know you have family as well.

Dylan Rusch (04:09.74)
Yeah, freedom is just being able to do what you want, where you want, with who you want.

It’s really not about money for me. Money’s just a tool to provide that freedom. So at this point in my life, I’m looking to optimize certainly time with family and my faith and even health and fitness I’m trying to open up more time for. when I was about, I don’t know, maybe five, six months ago, I was working my corporate job and it was just tough to prioritize everything. Now I have much better work-life balance and able to focus on land investing, which opens up a ton of freedom for my family and I.

Ron (04:43.412)
Yeah, having a family kind of changes your priorities for sure where a lot of people who come into a program like this just money, money, money, money, money, or quit their job, whatever it is. So that’s really cool to hear. What does your business look like right now? Like you mentioned, I know you said team. Let’s talk about the team that you have around Dylan Rouge.

Dylan Rusch (05:01.354)
Yeah. So, current team honestly is at this point, it’s just, myself and then my us-based acquisitions manager. So, she’s about five hours per week, but I wanted someone to represent me, represent my company well, and just getting on the phone with leads and just being a great, ambassador for me and my company and what I stand for. I have had two VAs throughout the year and, currently don’t have a VA, which I probably, I know I need to hire one here in the future.

But honestly, I would love to find someone who’s US based, maybe 15, 20 hours a week that can follow up with towns or counties or municipalities to understand different zoning regulations and code ordinances, stuff like that. And also follow up with leads as well. I would love to go to the US based approach going forward. So yeah, it’s just me and my sales manager currently. And I like that model, just being able to run a little bit more lean towards the end of this year.

Ron (06:00.085)
So did you go through like a formal hiring process or was someone you knew for that?

Dylan Rusch (06:04.334)
Found her on Upwork and had a number of interviews and she really impressed me. She has she had a lot of sales experience But then had to work with training her on on land so

Ron (06:06.218)
Okay.

Dylan Rusch (06:16.386)
put together a ton of loom videos, showed her kind of how to comp land. Honestly, when the leads come in, I’m still comping and saying, hey, here’s the price range we can be at. Feel free to follow up with these landowners and see what they say, just because I’m utilizing Landcaller as a cold calling service and you get 40, 50 leads per month. And that’s just hard to keep up with with one person.

Ron (06:40.618)
Yeah, so she’s just calling those people back. it like set times or is it just like when you get leads she’s calling them or what does that look like? Because I know response time. I know Lana talked about that the other day, just time to response. Like what does that look like for her?

Dylan Rusch (06:53.346)
Yeah, I-

Even on my end, wanted to make it as flexible as possible for her. So she usually calls in the evenings. She’s an entrepreneur herself, so she has a lot going on, but wanted to take on this land investing acquisitions manager role for me. And she’s been doing a great job. She’s closed. I think I know a couple of deals she’s closed and maybe one or two of those without me even having to talk to the landowner at all. So that’s definitely a model going forward where if I could help offset some of that and I’m still jumping on sales calls.

often. But yeah, just as you build a team, as you build a business, can’t just rely on you.

Ron (07:30.454)
So is sales something you felt like some people hire first because they felt it was a weakness, some people hire because it was just taking so much of their time. In sales in particular, what was the reasoning for that position? I know you hired two VAs, that didn’t work out it sounds like, but as far as the sales acquisition manager, what was the reasoning?

Dylan Rusch (07:50.446)
Yeah, the biggest reason was just the sheer volume of leads. So the combination of direct mail and also 40 to 60 leads from the land caller, the cold calling service. I just needed help operationally to keep up with all of that. And again, I’m still hopping on sales calls. I don’t consider myself a…

tremendous salesperson. I’m more so just like, hey, I’m going to treat people well and have a customer service approach and just have a good conversation with with folks who are potentially interested in selling. So yeah, we’re kind of tag teaming the sales aspect of all the leads that are coming in.

Ron (08:24.268)
That makes a lot of sense. I want to get into, so what you’re doing differently than a lot of people, like you’re going after really, really, really expensive areas with where five acres might sell for 200 grand, stuff like that, and you’re looking for subdivides there. I want to talk through like you first, first of all, just getting started in those areas, like what drove you towards that and like what does that look like? What looks different on those? So to break it down, actually let you break it down.

Dylan Rusch (08:49.42)
Yeah, so to be honest, this can be a pitch for Land Portal, Land Portal has been a game changer for me in terms of targeting, you’ve always been able to target higher acreage ranges, but targeting parcels with a lot of road frontage, that’s huge when it comes to subdivide plays. And so I’ve just started doing that. I’ve also filtered out wetlands or FEMA flood plain, which has helped out a ton. So at this point, I’m pulling all my data from Land Portal and then still sending the direct mail, but also

when I send all that data to land caller every lead that comes in is a good parcel and something that I can work with. Sometimes an owner may want market value, which is tough to work with and doesn’t give you a lot of wiggle room, but at the very least every lead that comes in is a quality piece of land. So starting off land portals help tremendously. And then it all kind of depends on what sandbox you want to play in. I’d rather play in the sandbox that is an expensive area where you have a little

bit more margin and wiggle room for negotiation where if you’re going into areas where maybe retail is $20,000, it’s hard to have much wiggle room and offer 10K or 12K. So yeah, just going into expensive areas, because then if you can subdivide within those expensive areas, those could be your home run deals.

Ron (10:09.664)
So I know you’re targeting a lot of road frontage. Are you looking for, are you talking to counties before and making sure you can subdivide? What does that look like before you actually, when you’re choosing those markets?

Dylan Rusch (10:23.958)
Yeah, I kind of use just my knowledge base of a particular area. I don’t check the zoning regulations prior, and maybe I could to save a little bit money, but I’m more the ready, aim, fire type of.

a ready fire aim type of approach in terms of let’s just get the marketing out there, let’s see what leads come back and then as those leads trickle in I do my due diligence on the land and then dive right into the zoning regulations and some of the ordinances that are involved within a village or a city or a county.

Ron (10:54.124)
What have you seen the, is it more barrier in your mind or have you not done any like, have you done any subdivides in more rural areas or as far as like, is there more restrictions generally, subdividing in those? So when you’re talking about guys, when you’re talking about subdividing closer to a city in an expensive area, we’re not gonna talk in details about where Dylan’s doing deals, it doesn’t matter. It’s closer to a main metro area and are you seeing the barrier to subdividing be more or no?

Dylan Rusch (11:23.726)
Honestly, in the areas that I’m targeting, it’s more advantageous to go into the areas right around the major metros because you have to look at their comprehensive land plan for 2030, 2035, and that’ll tell you a lot about what you can or can’t do in the future. Whereas if you get too rural, a lot of times, at least in my market, a lot of it’s zoned agricultural and a lot of these counties, towns are looking to keep that land zoned as egg. So a lot of times you, maybe you can subdivide it, but you couldn’t put just a residential

residential home on that. I had one piece of property that was zoned as egg got under contract at a price that makes sense, no matter what I’m able to do with it. And I went to the town plan commission, went in person, kind of pitched my CSM and my survey proposals and that got shot down because they wanted to preserve it as farmland. So I’d almost prefer to work right around the major metros and around cities just because it’s more advantageous and the zoning ordinances allow you to do a little bit more from a

standpoint.

Ron (12:24.79)
And that’s the thing when you’re going after whatever three, four, $500,000 profit deals, which a lot of your deals you’re going after are like that, you don’t need a deal every month even. Like you get a deal, is that like your mindset going forward as far as like, let’s just do four deals a year, 300, 400,000 a pop and then it’s a good little life. What’s kind of your mindset as far as that with deal volume to deal size, I guess?

Dylan Rusch (12:43.916)
Hehehehe

Dylan Rusch (12:49.14)
Yeah, so I’ve been thinking a lot about my 2025 goals for my land investing business and

Ron (12:52.991)
Let’s talk about that, yeah.

Dylan Rusch (12:54.198)
Yeah, so kind of built out a spreadsheet and honestly, so my goal for 2025 is $1 million in profit. And the way that that breaks down is me targeting just bigger profit deals, which yes, it’ll require more work from a zoning and subdivide and all that standpoint. But I kind of have the idea where it might take two to four deals to get halfway there to that million dollar mark. So I kind of have it broken down. I think there’s probably one deal,

year that anyone who’s doing consistent marketing can get and I have that at 250k and then I have it based on small, medium and large deals. So I have it broken down as one monster deal at 250k plus and then large deals, probably two or three of those at 125k plus. So if you get two to four of those deals, you already at that 500k mark and then we’ll do those traditional flips all the time in the small to medium size range that are maybe 15 to

50k in profit. So I kind of have it all broken down in this fancy spreadsheet. So to get to that million dollar mark, it’s probably going to be roughly 15 to 20 deals, more so lopsided on that larger profit deals, if that makes sense.

Ron (14:09.302)
That’s really cool. So if I, if I, if you come on the pos podcast, 12, 13 months from now, November, early December of a 2025 and you’re like, the year is perfect. like everything, or I blew through my goals. Like what does, what does that look like as far as I know you said your size of deal and it’s hard to really predict the size of deals, but I think you can blow past the million dollars of profit Dylan and doing bigger deals. Like they add up really, really fast as you’re starting to realize.

But yeah, you come on December of 2025 and you’re just pumped about what happened in 2025. What does that look like?

Dylan Rusch (14:45.932)
Yeah, it’ll continue to be a lot of education in terms of like, do I structure entitlements? How do I do subdivides? There’s so much that goes into it in terms of like, wetland delineation studies and what the county will let you do from a road frontage standpoint. And that’s what I learned in a big deal that I just closed on as a double close about a week ago. So yeah.

those monster deals are out there. It’s just a matter of gearing your marketing towards those large, large to monster deals. And that’s what I’ve started doing. So my marketing has changed since I started off in this business, just doing a blind offer price. I’m still doing blind offer, but I’m targeting my marketing and my messaging based on, we’re interested in your lot. If it’s a prime development opportunity, we want X amount of road frontage. We want X amount of acres. If your lot fits this, we’re interested. Here’s the price. And then you

negotiate from there. So a lot of times when I get calls back from leads, most times I’m the highest direct mail offer that they’ve ever seen. And usually I’ve been pricing maybe 70 to 80 percent of market value, which I’m fine with if I can provide those value add opportunities with development and subdividing. So that makes me feel better too about really playing close to market value, make it a win-win for everyone involved, and then me doing the legwork on the development side.

to drive bigger profits.

Ron (16:08.492)
That’s awesome, yeah, I think it’s crazy. Everyone I talk to who’s really successful in this business, they do things how we teach them and then they just make little tweaks, adjustments. You have a really, really good, I like what you’re doing as far as your niche and the markets you’re in. I think you don’t need to do a lot of deals to make a ton of money, which I know that’s what you’re doing. Have you hit any of those high?

dollar amount subdivides, I thought you told Dan one, but did it follow through or what does that look like?

Dylan Rusch (16:39.158)
Yeah, so I’m getting a ton of leads. I’ve ran into some roadblocks in terms of the plan commission in a given municipality or just different zoning ordinances or timing with the seller. My biggest deal to date, just closed it last week, was a 95K double close. That was a $575,000 purchase. And honestly, that could have been my monster deal. Kind of got backed into a deadline crunch. That would have taken probably the $575,000.

Ron (16:49.621)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Rusch (17:09.071)
but also roads aren’t cheap, which I found out very quickly. So between civil engineering, I estimated that to be about 80K and then a road probably 500 to 600K. So you’d be all in for 1.2. And honestly, in that area that I was in, I could have made it eight to 10 different lots at probably 200K a piece. So that could have been my monster deal right there. Just based on timing and whatnot and kind of it would have needed a rezoning as well.

So I decided to go with the double close, get that just shy of six figure deal, and then going forward I learned so much from that experience where next time where a lead like that comes up, I’ll be able to take it down myself, use partners to raise capital, and then see a lot of the upside that this developer that I double close to will be able to see on the back end.

Ron (17:59.518)
I remember getting quotes on a road once, like a legit road light, and they are not cheap. I don’t know how long yours was. I remember getting quoted 800,000 or something like that. And I’m like, holy moly. Then there’s all these regulations, fire department stuff. They need to be able to turn around at a coldest. Like you need to make sure all these other regulations and it’s like, that’s just, it’s definitely an opportunity for sure. But you mentioned putting together capital and stuff. And when you’re going after bigger deals,

having money partners, having people that can provide a million dollars for a deal and get a return in whatever, 12 months, whatever that looks like, how is that coming along? Do you have enough access to capital as far as that? is that a constant thing you’re working on?

Dylan Rusch (18:44.95)
Yeah, it’s, it’s a constant thing I’m working on, continually trying to, to post about what I’m doing on Instagram, just to get people interested, whether it’s, people I already know within my inner circle or people within some of the mastermind groups that I’m part of. would say it’s about 50 50 right now in terms of deals that I’ve funded myself verse, bringing on capital partners. And I have a, at this point, about a year in, I have a lot of success stories in terms of what I’ve been able to produce for those capital partners. most of those deals have

turned around in less than three months.

These capital partners are making, I don’t know, 15 to 20 % on their money within two or three months. Whereas if you break that down annually, that’s a huge win for them. So I’m going to continue to build my portfolio of those successful deals and be able to continue to highlight that to potential investors. And I’ve even floated around the idea of putting together a fund. Whereas instead of giving up 30 % on a profit split for every single deal, if someone else funds it, maybe you can put

Ron (19:24.203)
could do.

Dylan Rusch (19:48.24)
together a fund and do a preferred return for 18 to 20 % on an annual basis. There’s so many people who have capital that are looking to get it outside of Wall Street in the stock market and would invest in something like this. And they would gladly take 18 to 20 % preferred returns. So I just know that if I could get five investors at 50K a pop, that would work wonders for my business. And I even used AI to help me calculate what that would look like based on my 2024 numbers. And if I had a fund at 18 to 20 % preferred return versus

Ron (19:53.451)
Mm-hmm.

Dylan Rusch (20:18.479)
30 % profit split for every deal, I would have saved probably $75K on my bottom line. So the access to the capital and cheaper money is huge for a land investor.

Ron (20:30.046)
Yeah, I agree. it’s a, and it’s a gap for people just, some people don’t put effort into finding those people or solving those things. It’s not a, it’s not the same for everyone. It’s not the same for Dylan. It’s not, it’s not the same for my business. Everyone has different kinds of funding needs and stuff like that. You need to put time and effort to do bigger deals. You need access to capital. And so many people are looking for deals and they get the deal and then they just message a few people and they don’t actually know how to get the money. You mentioned here, Dylan,

that AI is a big part of the future of your business. Talk about that, talk about the value you’ve seen in it thus far, saving time, saving money, everything like that.

Dylan Rusch (21:09.91)
Yeah, so I’m certainly not an expert in AI. I have paid for some courses that I’m about halfway through on that will help me understand AI a little bit better. And even a few weeks ago, I thought AI was just chat GPT, but it’s so much more than that. I’ve used it to help with understanding zoning ordinances where you just download the zoning ordinance for a municipality. You plug that into either chat GPT or clawed.ai is what I’ve been using recently. And that helps you understand what you can or can’t do. It’s helped me with sales.

Ron (21:21.801)
Yeah.

Dylan Rusch (21:40.304)
Even earlier today, I plugged in some transcripts from my Loom videos, plugged those into ChatGPT, and that built out SOPs for my team based on the Loom video that I already created. So there’s just so much that you can do within AI. I know you can even use it to put together pitch decks for local developers and builders in the area if you do get something under contract. So it’ll also allow land investors to run a little bit more lean in the future because you can use AI for a lot of things.

that you would normally outsource to a US-based or a traditional foreign-based VA.

Ron (22:16.268)
That’s really cool and I know everyone I think, like even the people who use AI all the time, I think they understand that they under utilize it. It’s definitely something that I’m trying to work on. It’s just the learning curve I guess is not that I don’t use ChachiBT, I do, but as far as like I know how much time it can save if you put some money into learn or put some time, not necessarily money into learning it. What was that other one you said it was called? Not ChachiBD.

Dylan Rusch (22:41.174)
Yeah, it’s Claude, C-L-A-U-D-E dot A-I. And that, I think it just helps think a little bit more and just has more personality to it than ChatGPT does. Again, I’m still learning, but I’ve really enjoyed it and have learned a lot from it. A little bit more flexible than ChatGPT and you kind of use both simultaneously for a lot of what you do.

Ron (23:02.485)
think we kind of skipped over, not skipped over, I know you mentioned it, that double close where you bought for 575 and made $95,000, because that’s not a, that’s a big deal as far as like making 95 grand without any money out of your pocket. Not necessarily, but just like, how’d you sell that property? That’s what I’m kind of curious about. How’d you get it under contract? What did that look like? Did you have a cash offer price that they didn’t accept? Talk about that whole deal.

Dylan Rusch (23:25.676)
Yeah, so got it under control. The lead came in through direct mail and had a verbal agreement on actually a lower price and the seller decided not to go with that. I was pretty disappointed for about 24 hours, but then I was like, screw it. I’m going to send an updated offer, which was more than six figures, more than what we had previously talked about. And it came back and was accepted. And at that point it was game on. And I gave myself about two months to kind of for the closing date. And I really needed every single day.

of those two months because then I looked into developing it myself, understanding what those costs might be, calling the the village and the county DOT to understand where I could get road access. There was also wetlands involved kind of in a corner of the property which didn’t scare me but

you get into these development deals there’s even something called the wetland delineation study which Ron I know you know and I kind of knew of it a few weeks ago or a few months ago but that can really impact what you can do from a road and a building standpoint. So there was just so much that was going on with that property that I was just like I’m just gonna look to double close this to a developer and I honestly learned a ton on working with developers as well. These guys are busy the guy I double closed to he’s one of the big

developers and builders in my area. So really just I probably had 15 to 20 conversations with him and just tried to present my deal thoroughly and professionally and gain his respect. And one piece of advice I’d give to anyone who’s working with the developer is you need to leave a lot of meat on the bone for their deal on the back end. If you try to go maybe 1.5x of what market value is they’re gonna kind of blow you off. So I kept my

estimates on what I was looking for the property, very conservative, and that kind of gained respect and allowed me to continue that conversation and make something work eventually. So yeah, lot of fireworks towards the last two weeks of that deal. Had to bring a hard money lender in last minute based on a few timing things, but it all worked out and a great success story. And going into 2025, I’m going to look to do more double closes as well.

Ron (25:44.523)
I think double, and I talked about it at the end and I think when we recorded is I think double closing does not get enough attention as far as just what you did there making $95,000 without any money out of your pocket, without any real risk to be honest. You probably could have extended the contract a month or, I don’t know, but you probably could have extended the contract a month or two if really need be, but you did the work and the seller’s happy. That seller’s not mad that they got $575,000. That’s what they agreed to and for that much money,

Two months, that’s no time, honestly. How long was it when you got under contract with the seller till you decided like, yeah, I’m not going to develop this myself?

Dylan Rusch (26:23.15)
It was probably maybe two months prior to maybe a month prior to the closing date Just with all the costs that were involved. I was quoted $400 per linear foot which would have been at least 400 K from a road cost So it’s like I could I even looked into working with the commercial lender So I would have had to come up with probably 200 K and a down payment and raise the capital for that raise the capital for a road So it got to a certain point where I’m just like and plus there’s risk involved

with doing it yourself, you never know what the economy is gonna do, and then when you have a family yourself, it’s just like, man, if something goes wrong, would not be pretty. So yeah, there’s a lot of upside, but there’s risk involved too. that’s where the double close come in and can mitigate your risk quite a bit.

Ron (27:10.528)
Yeah, I think your first deal doing something like that, like it has to be just more of a home run, not to be 100 % honest. Like there’s just things come up that could have ended up costing, like you could end up breaking even. Like you have no, you just don’t know with something. There’s so much unknown. Something comes up with the wetlands study or maybe the wetlands, but who knows? And then you all of a sudden have to pay some crazy amount of money or the deal falls through. You can’t split it up as much as you think. Like there was a lot of risk. I think you did the right thing based on everything you’re telling me there.

So you talked about hiring, can you talk about those two VAs that didn’t work out for you? Was that a them thing, a your business thing? What happened there?

Dylan Rusch (27:52.462)
I’d like to take the approach of just having extreme ownership. Honestly, I could have done a better job making more Loom videos and checking in a little bit more than I did. So yeah, it’s…

VAs are tough. You’re in different time zones. If you find a good one, hold on to them, pay them well and treat them great. And honestly, like once I saw that the ones that I did hire weren’t great, weren’t super motivated, I like to fire early, which I know sounds harsh, but sometimes you just got to make decisions and cut ties with someone and then move on to the next employee, which again, I sound harsh saying that, but in this business, you got to be proactive and move quickly.

Thank

Ron (28:35.167)
So do you not have right now work for a full-time VA in your mind? I think that’s the hardest thing with hiring VAs is when they’re part-time, because then they’re always looking for other jobs or they have to have another job. If you can give a VA 40 hours a week, you have the ability to have a lot of control. Not saying the people you had were good either way, do you not, what would a VA be doing?

Dylan Rusch (29:00.49)
Probably a lot of due diligence tasks. So when leads come in putting in the land ID link into my CRM I’d like to find one that it would be able to Converse or to comp first of all because I would take a tone off my plate if they could do the comping and then if they could converse with the with the town or the village or the county on different zoning regulations and whatnot, so I would say yeah, I probably do have enough work for a 40-hour per week VA and even in the last like

Month or two, admittedly, I haven’t been super consistent with my direct mail, which I wanna get back on. A lot of it was just trying to do that double close and that kind of took all my focus for a couple weeks there. yeah, looking to go hard from a direct mail and a cold calling standpoint where that’ll be more than enough lead flow for a VA to be full time.

Ron (29:50.623)
Have you ever done any texting or are you not interested in texting?

Dylan Rusch (29:53.23)
you

Great question. So I did do texting for a couple months and the VA that I hired was doing primarily texting. I think he probably had four or five other jobs that he was texting for too. So that was part of the problem. But yeah, I definitely see the value in texting. Just operationally, I didn’t like it because I didn’t really like going into launch control and there’d be 500 texts and there was maybe one or two leads and I’m guessing it was maybe something I was doing wrong. But I love the cold calling service that I use because they

dropped the leads right into my CRM. I don’t really see the conversation that they had or hear the conversation that they had. I just know the details on the land. They plug in some notes and then me and my acquisitions manager, we follow up and kind of give our pitch. So that’s just automatic leads and just a consistent lead flow. Whereas I didn’t have as quite consistent of leads with texting and I just didn’t love it operationally, but that’s just me. I know it can work.

Ron (30:51.893)
So what’s your combination of mail and code calling look like? Is it the same properties you’re doing this stuff for? Is it separate? What does that look like?

Dylan Rusch (31:01.147)
A lot of times it is the same property. So I’ll reuse that same data.

maybe I direct mail at first and then follow up with or have my cold calling service follow up or vice versa. The nice thing, the thing that I do like about cold callings, it allows you to go into those expensive markets that are maybe a little bit tougher to price and those leads just pop in whether it’s, it could be a two acre lot right in a great metro area that you wouldn’t probably get that type of lead from direct mail, but you can with cold calling. So I do kind of pick

choose what I do from a strategy standpoint, whether it’s cold calling versus direct mail, but a lot of times I will reuse that data and just have multiple touch points.

Ron (31:44.875)
that a lot. What’s your volume right now at DirectMail and CodeCalling?

Dylan Rusch (31:48.75)
Yeah, so cold calling, I usually get 40 to 60 leads per month. And that’s great. It’s probably about three grand per month from a cold calling standpoint. And then direct mail. I know annually for direct mail, I’ve spent about 55 to $60,000 in 2024. So you could probably do that math better than I can, but it’s been anywhere from five to maybe 12,000 mailers per month. And I’ve been kind of putting the button or the pieces together.

for my 2024 return on ad spend and direct mail and blind offers for me has still been the biggest return on ad spend for me, which is crazy. And that could be because I’ve adjusted my marketing and my messaging in those direct mailers that I’m sending out, which I think is important.

Ron (32:35.721)
It’s expensive and I think that’s what drives a lot of people away from it. But once you can, once you don’t think about the money as much and you’re just thinking about like, I’m gonna get deals from this, especially when you’re going after huge deals, the ROI is just really, really good overall. Yeah, talk about what’s kind of next. Actually, let’s go into, you’ve been in this business a year ago, or a year. Let’s talk about your kind of advice for someone looking to get in and also touch base on what’s changed since you started.

Dylan Rusch (33:05.558)
Yeah, I would say my advice, like everyone says, is just try to be as consistent with you can from a marketing standpoint. I know people have heard that on podcasts all the time. Ron, you and Dan talk about it quite a bit and it’s so important. So that’s probably the biggest piece. And also just surrounding yourself with people who are doing the same thing. So I’m in a couple different either Facebook groups or group chats where everyone else is doing land investing. So when I get a deal under contract, they’re the one of some of the first people that I text. Or if I have a question, I can

bounce ideas off of them. So that community is so important as well. So I would just say, stay consistent with your marketing and then just surround yourself with people who are doing the same thing. A lot of friends and family are pretty amazed by all this land investing stuff. So I can’t really bounce ideas off them. They’re certainly supportive and whatnot, but to be able to go to another land investor and say, hey, what do you think of this deal? That is so valuable when you’re just getting started.

Ron (34:00.908)
Community is what like, I don’t know, I love being in groups of people that are smarter than me. Just learning from different people, learning from people who are doing different things. I know a lot of people are doing pay per click. I some people are doing ringless voicemail. I absolutely love learning about the different ways. From you guys as well, it’s like the different ways people are making money in this business and there’s always more ways. That’s the thing, people view land as such like, that’s just land. There’s only so much you can do. You build or you sell it.

But within land, like they’re entitling, subdividing, there’s just so many things you can make money on. I don’t think a lot of people on the outside really truly understand. I don’t think I’m wrong about that, right?

Dylan Rusch (34:42.304)
You’re absolutely correct. Yeah, it’s…

We’ve said it before, it’s basically a marketing business that just buys and sells land. And you mentioned RVM’s, like one strategy that I got from one of my group members that I talk to all the time is like, Hey, once you get something under contract, skip trace all the surrounding parcels and send them an RVM. It costs next to nothing. can say, Hey, we’re going to list it at X price, but we’ll give it to you for, I don’t know, 20 % lower than that. If they’re able to maybe do a double close or an assignment. So there’s so many different nuances within land that you can do from them.

from standpoint that can really move your business forward.

Ron (35:18.268)
I’m excited for the future, but I think it’s becoming more skilled. Is that what you’re kind of seeing where you can’t just throw, not saying you can’t throw things at the wall, because you’ll probably still find some deals and make things happen, but you need to be committed. It’s a business. You’re probably not worried about three years from now being successful in land. When you have a business, it doesn’t feel like that. But if you’re just worried about flipping the next deal, 10 for 20,000 and stuff like that, it can be a little more.

stressful I think it can be a little less certain but the skills are what’s really important I think right now.

Dylan Rusch (35:52.652)
Yet skills are crucial. And even like, as I look back at my land investing business a year ago, I’m sure there’s leads that I passed up on that I could have made a significant amount of money on. And as I learn more from a zoning ordinance standpoint or like a development standpoint, those are just skills that I didn’t have a year ago. So now I just see deals within land ID or within land portal just much differently. And I’m able to be more creative with a lot of the deals and the leads that come through.

Ron (36:23.244)
I think the creativity and like maximize, there’s times when you’re maximizing your ROI and everything like that, you wanna think about risk as well. And I think that’s what you took really well in that double close is like, yeah, you looked at like, okay, I can maybe make four or $500,000 after, but that’s your best case scenario after paying an investor, everything like that. Worst case scenario was not, I’m telling you the worst case scenario, you could have lost money, you could have been underwater. We’re building a pond right now. If you’ve watched any of those, like we’re building a pond when you join this.

I was talking to Daniel. He’s like, yeah, we need to bring in some dirt and like our price is going up 30 per like it’s our original quote was 52 I think we’re up to 75 that’s 50 % almost Going up so like and a project like that you’re building a road every foot is $400 like something is wrong with it You know, I mean like it you have to move the road and change the direction like I’m telling you you made the right the risk versus reward is something you really need to balance on this business and I think also like when you’re doing deal funding

how much hard money you have out is risk. Trust me, when I look at our numbers, I know profit splits things which are very little risk, no real risk on us versus when you have hard money out, it’s not guaranteed that you’re gonna be able to pay it off. If that property doesn’t sell, you could be in a really weird position.

Dylan Rusch (37:39.95)
Totally. Yeah, and I’ve used hard money sparingly and…

I’ve built a good relationship with the hard money lender here locally and he helped me out with that double close and I have another deal out with him. And I definitely wouldn’t go to the hard money lender with a deal that carries risk as you know and I know. So yeah, profit split makes sense there. And even like, maybe it’s not risk, but taking those singles and doubles as they come across and not trying to swing for the home run every single time, maybe when you list something on the market, I think is important too. Like I would gladly take a

closing within a month at 80 % of market value on the sales side, then trying to hold out for another 15 % and maybe it’d taken five, six months. So just, I think of risk in terms of like velocity of capital as well when it comes to the land business.

Ron (38:28.595)
Yeah, absolutely and 95 grand isn’t a bad, like that’s 95 grand at 50 % over the average yearly income for probably United States, I don’t know what it is right now. I wish it would have been 100,000 though, so our YouTube thumbnail could have been six figures or something like that. But Dylan, I appreciate you coming on here. Like I said, we’ll follow up here in a year or so, see where you’re going. I know you’re gonna blow through those 2025 goals. If you guys are watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button below, like the video. If you’re watching on Apple,

Dylan Rusch (38:42.943)
I know.

Ron (38:56.307)
or Spotify, listening on Apple or Spotify. Leave us a review, share this with a friend, put in your Instagram story, TikTok story, everything like that. Thank you so much. We’ll see you next time.

so you know.

 

Watch the Full Episode Here

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_mask_size_scale='false' _mask_size_scale_tablet='false' _mask_size_scale_mobile='false' _mask_position='false' _mask_position_tablet='false' _mask_position_mobile='false' _mask_position_x='false' _mask_position_x_tablet='false' _mask_position_x_mobile='false' _mask_position_y='false' _mask_position_y_tablet='false' _mask_position_y_mobile='false' _mask_repeat='false' _mask_repeat_tablet='false' _mask_repeat_mobile='false' hide_desktop='false' hide_tablet='false' hide_mobile='false' _attributes='false' custom_css='false']https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P8CFa4xemc[/embedpress]