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Philip, a former Wall Street professional, made a bold career shift into land flipping—and it paid off big. In this episode, he shares how he transitioned from the finance world to real estate investing, ultimately earning over $200K in rural land deals. 

He breaks down the key differences between traditional finance and land investing, explaining why he believes land offers more freedom, fewer headaches, and higher returns. 

Philip also dives into his deal sourcing strategies, the importance of data-driven decisions, and how he scaled his business with minimal risk.

If you’ve ever considered making the leap from a corporate job to entrepreneurship, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss. 

Philip’s journey proves that with the right strategy and mindset, anyone can achieve financial independence through land flipping. 

Whether you’re new to real estate or looking for a way to escape the 9-to-5 grind, his experience offers a valuable roadmap for success.

Watch or listen to the full episode below! ⬇️

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Ron A.: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the real estate investing podcast. I’m your host, Ron Apke joined today by one of our students, Dan and Philip. Philip excited to have you here.

Philip: Yeah. Excited to be here. And it’s great to meet you guys in person. And. Get to kind of talk about the the business.

Ron A.: Yeah. Talk about your journey, everything like that.

Let’s just get started. Where’d you find us from as far as what were you doing prior to land? Let’s just go. What were you doing prior to land investing?

Philip: Yeah. So I guess I came out of college, went to go work on wall street. And so I’ve always had kind of the investing background and interest in that.

Eventually transitioned into real estate, rental properties. I’ve got my Florida real estate license. But. But before getting into wholesaling, flipping, that kind of thing, I wanted to try something less competitive. And so started listening to land podcasts and started in August 2023 doing a lot of smaller deals, kind of flying blind, made a lot of mistakes on my own without being in any kind of course or anything like that.

Listen to different podcasts. I think I heard one of you guys on a podcast, someone else’s podcast, and that’s kind of how I got on newsletter and. There are a lot of unaddressed questions, I think, when you scale a land business that being in the community really helped me with as far as like, okay, well, you know, I was self funding small deals and I was like, I’m going to run out of money unless I can sell these deals quickly enough.

So yeah, that’s, you know, addressing kind of unanswered questions was one thing that I got out of the community.

Dan A.: Yeah. Did any, did any of that, I’m just curious because, we have a lot of students from a lot of different places, but I haven’t heard many people coming from Wall Street into the land investing space, at least from what I’ve heard.

Have you? No. I’m just curious. Has, did anything you learn there kind of correlate over so far?

Philip: Yeah. So like understanding risk, understanding you know, funding interest rates, understand the economy well, right? Like there’s less demand for infill lots now because interest rates are high. And so builders maybe have stepped back a little bit, for instance.

Working with, you know, like I’m selling pieces of land and I can talk to lenders kind of fluently. I had to explain someone, a lender the other day, like, you know, double close, right? The title company is going to send you the 24 month chain of title and I’m not going to be on there. This is kind of how it works.

How’s it going to work for financing? Is that going to be a big deal? So I think just understanding risk, understanding different investment products. Kind of understanding like internal rate of return on a project. Like for instance, let’s say. I’m working on a deal right now where I need to get a survey done because we can’t confirm that this easement exists because there’s no survey on file.

We don’t know exactly where the easement is and I kind of pitched to the surveyor, can you charge me at closing for the survey? And so the survey said, yeah, I can. If it doesn’t sell in 90 days, you need to pay me. And so if you look at kind of the economics of a deal, when you’re deferring your expenses until closing, your returns are higher.

So kind of that kind of mindset. Coming from wall street. There’s a guy, a hedge fund manager named Kyle Bass and he’s buying land, you know, one to two hours outside large cities. And so I think institutional money is trying to get more into this space. So yeah,

Ron A.: that’s awesome. So when did you stop?

Are you still working a wall street job or when did you stop doing that?

Philip: I work I do government contracting now. But I. I just find the time to kind of do everything. So how many hours is that

Ron A.: right now? Is it full full time? Yeah. Okay. So talk about your, so you did some info lots or did you do rural lots before you joined land investing online?

Or what did that look like before your deals? You said you made some mistakes before. What did that, what did that look like? Your experience doing that by yourself? I’m sure you learned a ton as well.

Philip: Yeah. So I started out started sending out mailers August, 2023 in Florida. And. You know, almost bought a lot that needed a probate, for instance.

Okay, learned about how probates work, and that’s not a good idea. Almost bought lots where the tax that was, back taxes were worth more than the land. You know, almost bought lots with large HOA balances that were unpaid. Trying to negotiate those balances didn’t work out. Bought lots with deed restrictions that were, you know, completely that I still was able to flip.

I bought, so my first deal, was a little over a year ago. I paid 375 for a landlocked piece of land in Georgia, flipped it for 4, 350, so that’s 12 times my money in a day or something like that. Just did self closing, used to write up a lot of deeds myself, and so I learned a lot about title work, and that’s been helpful to me.

As of transitioned into bigger deals and

Ron A.: then going to bigger deals. Like what kind of made you take that? Like, I, I need some outside help. I need, I see people doing this differently. Like what, what mentally was that transition like?

Philip: Yeah. So I just felt like there were people who I knew enough to do bigger deals.

And the big gap in my mind was funding and just having other people who were also doing land investing. Kind of to talk to. And so the community’s been really helpful for that.

Ron A.: That makes sense. So, so talk about your first, like targeting those bigger deals once you first joined. Like, what did that look like?

So you came in and you were like, you didn’t want to do the info lots anymore, or were you like I wanna do some of those still and still target bigger ones as well?

Philip: Yeah, so I mean, the biggest deal I’d done before I joined the community was like, buy for six, sell for 12 and a half or something like that.

And so it was like, this is never going to be a big business that I can scale up with these numbers. And I was also, you know, on the, on the seller side. Like my buyers were people who like barely had a pulse, right? Like I had someone homeless try to buy a piece of land from me. So it’s like, this is just a waste of time.

I need to find a way to do bigger deals. And I have rental properties. I have my real estate license. And so it never scared me to do bigger deals. So I came in to I started sending mail with blind offers in August, September. Cause I used to just do neutral letters and I would just get blown up with calls.

And I would target counties with like no activity and it was just such a waste of time. So, I started sending out mailers in August, September of this year and one big deal came to me. It was 258 acres in Missouri and it was a subdivide deal. It was going to split up into 10 acre parcels. Now the market was too slow to get funding for that and I’m just kind of like stubborn.

So I’m like, you know what, I’m going to go get a loan for this. The ad credit bank in Missouri and I’m like, all right, let me get a loan for this. I talked to my, and I had realtor pennies that were good. The only issue was just the market was slow. So I was in at 1600 bucks an acre on these 258 acres market was just way too slow.

But I was like, you know what? I can pay for the loan every month. I’ll just deal with it. Worst case, it doesn’t sell. I could probably just sell it at my, like, you know, I was taking on way too much risk for someone starting out now, eventually. I even flew to Missouri, met the seller, went on the land, shook the guy’s hand, because I was like, if I’m taking on 400, 000 in debt for this land, I’m splitting with a friend, but I kind of want to make sure I know what I’m getting into.

So went out there eventually the loan took too long to close. Seller backed out. I already had the subdivision survey done and the seller wouldn’t extend the closing date and you know, someone had gotten in his ear about how the land’s worth actually a lot more. After I took the trip there, I negotiated the land, the price down 45, 000.

And so it was an even better deal from my perspective. So seller pulls out. I’d already paid for the survey. And it was five grand. And I was like, man, like this, you know, I, I went on a trip there. Like, you know, it was fun and everything, but still. And that really got under me. And that’s, that trip marked the transition.

That was in November when the deal fell through. Then I started scaling up my marketing like I’m a really intense person and I was like, man, this really gets under my skin like because the guy listed the parcels that I subdivided on the market for four grand an acre that I was in at 1431 on. He used your survey.

So before closing, he, he realized that he didn’t have a copy of the survey. And I talked to some folks in the state of Missouri. If you have a serve, you commissioned a survey to your property. He eventually bought the survey off of me at full price. And so that kind of made me feel a little bit better about it because like, all right, cool.

Even though it’s just five grand, like, you could easily blow five grand on mailers. But like, it just, principles wise, it really rubbed me the wrong way that the guy turned around, used my work to sell it for more money. I’m sure he wasn’t happy that I was gonna make a, probably a good amount of money on his land.

Ron A.: Yeah.

Philip: And so two of those parcels, they were listed at four grand an acre. I was in at 1431 an acre. And two of those sold within two weeks. And so I was like, man, like, you know, that would have paid off, I think more than half the loan right there. So yeah, that, that really just got under my skin. And then from there, I was like, I’m going to start texting.

I’m going to start sending more mail out. I’m going to start doing cold calls. Like, I, I’m, I need to get this out of my system. And I think it would have been easy for me to just be like, you know what? I’m, I’m done with this land thing. Like it didn’t work out. So and since then, so I’ve done. About one deal a week since Thanksgiving.

So I’ve gotten 11 deals since Thanksgiving week. Nice. People will talk to you and they’ll be like, you know, I remember December. This is every year that happened the first year I was in land investing too, where people were like, I’m not going to send mail. I’m not going to do marketing in December around.

You hear that a lot. Yeah. And it’s like, man, I got a PA signed Christmas Eve. I got a PA signed New Year’s Eve. I got, I did a seller negotiation on Christmas day that worked out. Right. And it’s like people, it just doesn’t matter.

Dan A.: Yeah. That’s when we started the business was Christmas day. Remember? We priced our first.

We were trying to price. Yeah. And send out blind offers on Christmas day. Did you learn anything from losing that deal? Is there anything you’re that’s in your head that you’re like, Oh, if I would have made this done this quicker or like,

Philip: what were the lessons learned there? Well give yourself plenty, more time than you tell the seller that you need for closing.

Just say, you know what, it’s gonna take two weeks to close, but I put a month on here in case things get slowed down, for example. Because originally the seller wanted to close by the end of December and I just, for whatever reason, I made the closing date sooner than it needed to be. And she kind of shot myself on the foot with, in the foot with that.

Did you have

Dan A.: earnest down?

Philip: Oh yeah, I got it back though. Yeah. Cause

Dan A.: you went past the date. Okay.

Philip: Yeah. And I was still willing to close. And then also like, maybe it doesn’t pay to be so stubborn. Like who knows? I could probably still be sitting on like eight of those parcels and granted, like I was going to try and sell them for significantly less than what they’re listed at.

Right. But like. You know, let’s say that I’m sitting for years on this land for 400 grand, like just because you can get the loan for it doesn’t mean, you know what I mean? Like the deal didn’t get funding for a reason. And so like. Maybe respect that to some extent. It’s true. Yeah. So, you know, I don’t think it was a bad deal.

It was just too slow of a market for that.

Ron A.: I think I remember reviewing that. Did you submit it to us? Yeah. Yeah, I think I remember like the slow market and you obviously understand that. But what I would respect is like the fact that you went like, let me go figure this out. Like you went and got an ag loan.

And I think it would have worked out at the end of the day. Like, I don’t know what your month, your monthly payments would have been. Hefty I think I don’t think they would but you’re paying off some principal to what was that gonna look like in terms of yeah Your monthly payments.

Philip: Yeah, they were gonna be like 2, 400.

I want to say. Yeah, and I was like, you know what? I’m spending like around more than that on marketing and I could still do 10, 000 texts a month kind of with what I have Set aside for my monthly marketing budget, but yeah, it was going to be a 6. 75 percent loan, 20 year fully amortizing. They’ll release each parcel as you or sorry, they’ll reduce the balance on the loan each time you sell every parcel.

Partial release, yeah. Yeah, partial release, exactly. And so I was like, you know what, I feel comfortable with this because I know that like, So

Ron A.: your payment goes down every time you sell.

Philip: Yeah, you can choose to do it like that. You can like re, rerun the amortization schedule and so then your, your balance goes down.

But

Dan A.: you’re a risk guy, so you analyzed the risk and thought it was still a good deal. That’s the thing when you get into those tighter margin, higher properties, higher dollar amount properties, is you’ll lose a lot of funders

Ron A.: because of that. It wasn’t the margin, it was just the time. It was, it was a lot too.

That’s 25 parcels, correct?

Philip: It was going to be, it’s 10 parcels, 20, like I think 25 to 35 acres. Okay, got it, got it. Those deals are harder

Dan A.: to make because you’re funding, you got to realize anyone can fund you not anyone, but a lot of people can fund a 50, 000 deal. Then you go to 100, 000 and then that gets split in half.

How many people can do that? Then you go to 200, 000, that gets split even in a quarter. And there’s only such a, out of everyone who funds deals and are investors out there on the funding side. Your pool goes from this to a tiny little sliver over here of the, you know, that’s just how the funnel works, the higher dollar amount.

And that’s where people like that are aggressive on the financing side, like you Dylan Roush comes to mind. It’s not going to work for funders 10 out of 10 times a lot of the, a lot of these deals, especially Dylan’s where it’s like buying for 300, selling for 400. And doing it, you know, with funding, that’s not going to work, but you get hard money loans, you go to a bank, you get a, you get seller financing, you get aggressive on the terms.

Those work 10. So I love your mindset with attacking

Ron A.: creative with that is like, I think it’s the future of this business. A lot of times, like in these slower markets and tighter margins, like being creative with your financing giving, finding a solution for the seller, which is what you did, like, I don’t have the money for this.

I’m going to, I’m going to figure this out though. Figuring out solutions for sellers is so, so big. It’s just, it’s a, it’s unfortunate, I guess what happened. But I think that kind of drove you to where you are today. Let’s talk about that kind of marketing change as far as let’s get a little more in depth in terms of you got pissed from this and it kind of lit a fire into you and like, I’m going to, I’m doing this now.

And so what did that look like? Was it just like snap of the fingers? Like I’m getting launch control set up. I’m getting mail out every X days. What did that look like?

Philip: Yeah. So I was doing like a few thousand mailers a month, maybe in the fall. And then I think I did 5, 000 mailers between November and December.

and didn’t get a single deal out of it. And then I started setting up launch control around after the election because I had heard stuff, and you know, this is also an excuse, but people’s phones get blasted around the election and it, like, deliverability could go down. I’ve heard it. I don’t know how true it is.

But so around then I started setting up launch control and you know, I have a cold caller, so between, I think, 6, records a month are being called. So that’s been really good. And yeah, now I’m starting to kind of dabble in the homemade mailers. I did a survey hack mailer, sent out 1200 mailers with that a few weeks ago, just to use my like mailer credits and you know, not much traction there.

So I think, you know, like it’s a long wind wave answering your question. I think I’m trying to get more into like the personalized touch that you see like Nick and Kay in the community doing, like I’ve got these return labels that I worked on with like the college logo of like. You know, let’s say that you’re marketing in, in Florida, right?

You can put like Florida Gators logo on your return, return label. And you know, your open rates probably gonna be higher. So I’ve got a laser printer, I’ve got all that stuff. I’m looking at getting the handwriting machine that Nick’s got, but it’s you can’t return it. So I’m like, all right, if this doesn’t work, what am I going to do with the handwriting machine?

So, but, but yeah, so I’ve been real, really scaling up marketing. I think it’s been good. I think different mediums of marketing is huge in my opinion, because you look at every marketing medium and there’s some threats to it. You look at like. I had a lawsuit threat a few, lawsuit threat a few weeks ago for texting.

I think I saw that. Yeah. And it was like the, you know, you look at like TCPA. Yeah. That was a law that was put in place in the nineties, but like there’s all these issues with it. There’s like CTIA guidelines with carrier deliverability. Like there’s just so much that could go wrong there. And even then just like, it’s getting more crowded, right?

Maybe before you sent 5, 000 texts a month for a deal or sorry, 5, 000 texts to a deal now it’s 10. And so I think if you have a diversity of marketing, it really helps you look at even the mail, right? Post office last year lost close to ten billion dollars. So there’s all these questions about okay Well, are they gonna stop Saturday delivery?

Are they gonna reduce? Delivery to rural areas and so there’s there’s threats to every marketing medium cold calls falls under TCPA as well our VM And so I think having a diversity of marketing channels allows your business to be more resilient

Dan A.: Yeah. Same philosophy with any business really to, to that point.

Yes. It’s, it’s the risk of being on one and that one being diminished and you know, you’re stuck on one play that’s owns your business essentially that medium. But when you’re diverse, also you’re touching people in different ways, right? So you’re texting them, they see your name, they see your company, you’re having a conversation there.

Three months later they get hit with another piece of mail and then they get a cold call. It just starts compounding in their mind too. And it’s like multiple touch points in any business is best.

Philip: Yeah. And you’re able to reuse data. Data pull is so much better. Like if you pull, if you skip trace data, like you can’t text every single number there, right?

In some cases, you’ll like 50, 60 percent are going to be landlines. Not always, but, and so it’s like, okay, I don’t want to waste that data. Yeah, I can mail to those houses, sure, but I might as well also do cold calls to those houses. And so, you know, I’ve gotten off one data poll, like four or five deals and from different methods.

And I’d sent mailers to that County. I sent texts, I sent, I did cold calls. Now one thing that kind of. I, this is just my opinion from what I’ve seen so far is that folks don’t remember your company name. Like they get land, they get land calls, texts and mail from all sorts of people. Like I talked to this guy like 10 times.

It was the day before he signed the PA and he’s like, what was your company called again? And I’m, you know what I mean? So people just don’t necessarily remember. They’re like, someone wants to buy my land. But I mean, you think about it, right? Like some people are gonna open their le their junk mail or their letters in the mail.

Some people are gonna look at their phones, some people are gonna answer the phone, and so you just want to get them some way or another. So

Ron A.: that’s, that’s big. I think just mark multiple forms of marketing. Yeah. Not being owned by one form of marketing like we’ve talked about. I mean, your success in the last.

Three months is incredible. Like as far as getting a deal a week is really, really good. What is the variety of those deals? And actually before you answer that, what are you targeting? Like when you’re targeting deals, are you just saying my two to 50 acres or are you targeting anything special?

Philip: So I don’t put a lid on the acreage size.

I’m doing a 200 acre, 204 acre assignment deal right now. And it was like, you know, I probably couldn’t get funding for it, but I found a local investor that wants the deal and. So that’s gonna be 25, 000 right there, but, but yeah, so I don’t, I don’t keep a lid on my acreage range. I will do the bottom at like one and a half or two.

I try and do really specific campaigns like on the texting side, for instance, and eventually if I bring my cold calling in house, I’ll probably try and do this too. So like parcels for hunting, like I did a double close for hunting land with timber on it. And so I think like those kinds of texts also stand out to, to sellers more because you’re talking about the timber you’re talking about.

You know, okay, where can I go deer hunting versus like, Hey, do you want to sell your land? It’s just a more targeted conversation.

Ron A.: You talked about targeting survey hack. Have you done any more of that in terms of targeting subdividing or anything else? Or is it just kind of like, just go for X acres, just go for the big, all those full acreage sizes.

Philip: Yeah, I’ve done like road frontage targeted campaigns. Nothing really fruitful from that yet. I’m doing three subdivides right now that I’m working on, but they’re, you know, they’re minor and they’re kind of like. There’s a lot of, not to get off topic, but there are a lot of counties where you can do like pretty cool things as far as like you can carve out an acre and a half and then carve out five on the side and then, you know, another five or something like that and you’re going to get your, your higher price per acre with the smaller parcels.

So that’s really nice. Like you don’t necessarily need a ton of road frontage to do some of these subdivides. Obviously, you know, it’s going to be easier to do a bigger subdivide, but,

Ron A.: yeah, that’s really cool. Go and let’s get into your your 11 deals. How many have closed on the back end thus far?

Philip: I, I think three.

Ron A.: Okay.

Philip: Yeah, I think three, but I’ve got three others under contract to

Ron A.: sell.

Philip: Yeah. And then I’ve got the one assignment deal I’m doing. And then I’ve got one inventory that’s just bad land that I self funded, but I was probably still double my money on it. But yeah, so I’ve done, I have four double closes.

Right now, I closed one of them three self funds, and three sub divides, and what else? I don’t know. It should add up to 11, but yeah, I was just

Dan A.: going to ask, do you have any because at the beginning of this conversation, you’re talking about the deal you lost, right? Yeah. 200 what acres? How big, how big was that?

258 acres. Are you attacking deals like that? Cause you’re trying to get revenge. Like, is there anything in the pipeline, like 258? Cause that’s a big deal. And that was a big, that’s a big subdivide opportunity. Do you have anything in the, in the radar like that or that you’re working on?

Philip: Yeah, so this one assignment deal I actually had it reviewed a few weeks ago on, on the call and I had a funder reach out about it and he pointed out like some negative things about the land as far as there was a phosphate spill near the property.

It was Gabe, he like pointed that out to me. I’m like, man, like, thanks so much for, for catching that because I would have just gone through with this deal. Now so I was selling a different property nearby and a local land investor on Marketplace reached out. And, you know, I just got to talking to him.

He’s like, hey, you’re a land investor. Like, I do business here. And I’m like, what are you after? He’s like, I’m looking for like bigger parcels. And I was like, oh, you know what? I just came across a lead. 200 acres. He’s like, oh, I’d love to, you know, like, what do they want? Like, I’d love to find out more about it.

And I basically, you know, shut down the opportunity after I found out about, you know, the phosphate spill nearby. The EPA needed to come in and take it over. That company filed for bankruptcy that owned the land. It was a whole thing. And, so, one day, like, I, you know, I mentioned it to him. I gave him the parcel IDs.

I, the guy’s, like, relatively well known. So, I was like, yeah, he’s probably not gonna, you know, go behind my back or whatever on it. And, even if he does, like, I can’t fund this deal, so. Anyway, so, one day, like, I’m just sitting around, and I get a picture of the land from the guy. He drove two hours to look at the land with his partner.

And I’m like, oh man, like, I don’t even have this under contract, like, he’s like, I like it, like, let’s, you know, I’m gonna, I’ll, I’ll do an assignment of contract with you if you know, if you can get this guy, you know, get it to work. So I call the guy, the seller back up. He’s like, you know what, like, I found out that there’s oil under my land.

I don’t want to sell anymore. You know, the new administration is going to come in and they’re going to be drilling oil. Like I don’t want to do this. And I talked to a geologist, come out, got their opinion. And the geologist said that I’d be crazy to sell this within the next few years. So I was like, Oh man, like I feel bad.

This guy just drove with his partner and like two hours round trip each way to check out this land that I can’t even get under contract. And I eventually was able to convince him to just keep the mineral rights. Cause like they haven’t drilled. in that county in over a hundred years, and even then they stopped drilling because there was no oil to drill.

So long story short, like that’s a big deal that I’ve, that I’m sort of working on. I’m not getting the benefits of the big, you know, 200 acre exposure, but I’m making money off of it, and there’s The guy, the seller had a sign up for two and a half years on the property and no one, you know, budged. And so I was, I’m, you know, excited to be able to get that one done.

Yeah.

Dan A.: That’s a good way to be creative. That’s a cool story. Just in terms of tackling a deal like you, 25 grand. Yeah. You worked with the seller, they kept mineral rates, right. And you worked with them and you worked with the buyer. You align something from a whole different property. You aligned, Hey, I got this available.

It’s just cool for full circle. Creativity, I think, on that deal. That’s nice.

Ron A.: Probably got a future relationship with that buyer, too, I’d imagine. Yeah. If they’re looking to buy more, is that just a one time thing for them?

Philip: Yeah, no, they, they do a lot of, so, like, there are so many niches in LAN, and I think that’s really, that’s really cool.

Right. And as the business becomes more competitive, it’s gonna benefit you, or, as a business owner, to get into those niches and really have develop skills in it. So, for instance, This guy’s putting quite a bit of money into making the land look good because it’s cut over land And so it just doesn’t look good But if he makes it look good and does land clearing and some work on the land the numbers work for him now You think about like the traditional land flipper or deal funder?

They don’t necessarily want to put in tens and tens of thousands of dollars right into this and so you find the right You know like right pig for every barn. I think that’s the expression

Ron A.: Yeah, that makes sense. I’ve never heard that expression. But what about those 11 deals as far as like projected profit on those?

I know some of them have gone full cycle. Have you kind of added that up? What does that look like?

Philip: Yeah. Projected is a little over 200. So

Dan A.: yeah. Where, where most I’m coming from. So you, you do a little bit of everything, cold calling, texting, all that. Where, where are the most of them coming from there or is it a mix?

Honestly, it’s cold calling.

Philip: But the cold calling has been more fruitful for double closes because it just has been. I don’t know. I mean, I, I think like there’s so many deals that if you’re fixated on getting them at 30 to 45 percent of market value, they may not work, but like I did one, I think it was like 85 percent of market value and I still made 30, 000 on it, you know, on a double close.

And I was also like, you know, you go back to the kind of investor mindset and Wall Street and all that. You think about like. Your returns on a double close, you’re putting down 199 of earnest money. I mean, usually I do 500, but I did 199 on this one. And I’m getting 30, 000 back. Like, that is so much better than, you know, even getting it funded, even self funding, even getting a loan for it.

Like, the economics of that deal are fantastic. Double closing is amazing. It’s probably

Dan A.: over 50 percent of the deals in the community now, I’d imagine. Or it’s right there at probably 50%. And the people, yeah, you can buy it 60, 70%. The high ticket double closings, what’s, what’s really interesting, I think.

Philip: Yeah, because I think you guys said on the podcast, it was like, you can find, like, people that will sell their 400, 000 land at 320, 000. And you think about, like, I have rental properties. I don’t know to the penny what they’re worth. Like, someone could, I mean, I would probably want to find out before I sold it.

Right. You know, if you’re thinking rural land, like it’s, it’s hard to price to begin with. And so, yeah, I think there’s no shortage of like, if you can offer 80 percent of market value. There’s no

Dan A.: competition at that price either. Very,

Philip: very little. Yeah. And if you can like kind of, for instance, the county that I did this double closing, only seven parcels over 50 acres have sold in the last year.

And I had a perfect comp and I was like, you know what I can make this work I don’t even have the deal reviewed. I just you know, talk to enough agents talk to enough folks on the ground and Also when you do those bigger deals When you’re selling them the people that you talk to like, you know on facebook for instance, or even just you know The buyers that agents are representing are the agents like they’re so much more professional.

There’s so much better in my opinion to work with a guy. The quarterback that used to back up Joe Burrow at LSU like inquire about one of these pieces of land. It was kind of funny. But it’s like then, you know, I’m selling a 20, 000 piece of land and it’s like, you know, I’m talking to the guy about how like, yeah, this bank wants 15 percent down.

You know 85 percent LTV loan and he’s like, well, I need to talk to them, like to convince them to do like, you know, lower down payment. It’s like, those are the people meanwhile that are buying 20, 000 parcels and nothing against that, right? Like, you know, but then on the higher side, it’s like, you know, three week close, all cash deal, 270, 000, you know, piece of hunting land, no questions asked kind of thing.

And it’s like, that is just so much nicer in my opinion.

Dan A.: Yeah. What

Philip: are your goals going forward with this? Yeah, you know, I don’t really have monetary numbers. When I start to think too much about the numbers, I get like, like, Oh, let me, you know, go buy a jet ski. I just started thinking about like doing stupid things when I get too deep into the numbers.

I just want to keep the business growing and keep scaling. It feels good when you can pull off a deal a week because it feels like you’re moving your business forward. You know, like you talk about folks who are doing like. You could do one deal, a quarter, a massive subdivide and make 250 on it and you’re making a million dollars doing that.

But if you’re off that year and let’s say you only do three deals at 250 and you only made 750 in the year before you made a million dollars, well your business is down 25 percent in, in revenue that year and that’s, so I like doing a lot of deals. For the consistency aspect. Yeah, it just feels good and like, you know, that’s, it’s a, it’s a lonely business when you’re like, man, you know, nobody’s answering my phone. It is a lonely business. Things like that. And I, you know, I work by myself as far as like, I don’t know, I can do my job and do

Dan A.: this. You work

Philip: remote? Yeah. Yeah.

Dan A.: And what, what do you do? I know we talked about the government contracting, but what exactly is your job?

I’m a developer. So I,

Philip: so when I left kind of New York and the finance space, I was like, you know what? I want to learn, teach to learn myself, teach myself to code. You know, that tech is the future, you know, whatever. And so. I did that and it’s been good because, you know, you can work remote and it’s not necessarily easy, but you know, I’m able to get stuff done in the morning, at night.

Yeah, it’s flexible. Yeah. Nice.

Ron A.: Interesting. You have a Interesting, like mix of before even the developer thing that you said developing, you have that risk analysis stuff and you also like have the ability for sales which we don’t see in a lot of people. You said the first guy you talked down 45, 000 in person.

So you’re comfortable having that conversation. The mineral rights thing, obviously you lost the first deal. That’s not a big deal, but talk about sales in terms of like where you learned how to sell. Do you think it’s, is it something you’re improving right now or is it something that’s been natural to you, like having those tough conversations.

Philip: Yeah. I mean, it’s always hard to have tough conversations with people, no matter what it is. I think, you know, everybody’s always getting better at it. I’m always getting better at it. That said I think you just kinda gotta, you know, talk to people, like don’t be too stuffy. You know, I don’t, I’m not on the other end.

Like I don’t know how other people are talking to sellers, but I think like when you, like there’s a guy in Mississippi who like, you know, he wants to go. If Florida plays Ole Miss, he’s like, dude, let’s go to the game. You know, like you kind of got to build that rapport with sellers. And I think like the biggest obstacle to this business is not even objections on price.

Sure. Like, you know, not everybody’s going to sell their land at, you know, 30 to 60, 70 percent of market value. But I think they don’t even believe that you can actually get it done. And so like I had not to get off topic, but like I had a a seller where. The cold callers had written in their notes that like she was very rude and like aggressive and all this stuff and then You know but her price made sense and so I sent I had a hard time getting on the phone and I sent her a letter with like a picture of me and my golden retriever and like I hand signed it Certified mail and now like if I call her like she’s like, oh, it’s so nice to hear from you And so I think the personal touch is really important and just being like normal being someone who you know, like I talked to this one seller about like Toyota Tacomas for like 20 minutes and like the guy would trust me with his firstborn now, you know, like so Yeah, I mean as far as your original question on like sales and all that like, you know It’s something I’m always working on.

I think it just don’t get too stuffy and You know people want to work with people they like so that’s that’s nothing new.

Ron A.: Yeah one, Five years ago when we were doing this business, like people would tell us, like, yeah, you’re not going to go buy for 40, 50 percent of market value for long. And like, here we are today.

Like it’s, has the change absolutely, but it hasn’t changed as drastically as everyone like told us it would change. Like, no, there’s no way that’s sustainable. Everyone’s going to do it if it’s that what are your thoughts on the business model going forward? You talked about niches and that kind of stuff.

But what are your thoughts in the business model going forward?

Philip: Yeah. So I think. You know, I go to real estate meetups in Tampa and not one person there is doing exclusively land. So, it’s like everyone and their mom wants to wholesale. And there’s still wholesalers making a lot of money. Like, you know, there’s people, you guys always point that out.

Like, well, you look at like house flipping, wholesaling. It’s saturated, but there are people making, you know, a lot of money doing it. That said, I think, like, you know, the numbers, right? Like, you guys like to say, you know, even if it’s not 2, 500 mailers to a deal, if it’s 5, 000 and your numbers work, your numbers work.

So, I think that’s true to some extent. That said, the more barriers to entry, like, if you put yourself in a position to be doing things that have higher barriers to entry, you’re gonna have less competition, right? So, like, I think about what does the future look like for me, like, I would be open to learning to do major subdivisions, or not even necessarily major, but, like, you know, there’s guys that’ll, out in Texas, they’ll drill, like, test water wells, and they’ll build dirt roads and things like that, and they make, you know, a killing because how many people are doing that, not that many.

I think the more niche things you can get yourself into, like even like, you know, distressed as a niche, like folks who are distressed, like I had a property that had six liens on it a few weeks ago and I was like, hold the money in escrow until we can clear the liens. And then I, the title company was issued, was able to sell me title insurance against those liens because they were so old that it was unlikely that they would ever be claimed against.

And so like little niches like that, like I said, are definitely. The future of the business, just because, you know, you send out offers at 35 to 50 percent of market value. Yes, you’re going to keep doing deals, but I think if you can learn, I mean, probate’s a good niche, like high ticket double closes. It’s like the more you can bring to a seller, the more success you’re going to have with, with transactions.

Dan A.: So I think overall, just getting in to one niche and one specific thing where the barrier to enter is higher. It’s going to keep people out. It’s going to keep competition lower. It’s going to keep people from coming in, essentially, because they see it. Everyone, 90 percent of the people coming in, they’re all looking for, you know, a reason why it doesn’t work for them.

And then you start adding all these different levels and barriers to enter and it just makes it harder and harder on the person in general.

Ron A.: Yeah. One thing we talk with a lot of our new coaching students, stuff like that is like the barrier to getting your first deal. Like it is, and if you’re first getting started in this business, like there are going to be hurdles to getting your first deal.

If you can do that, then you can put your own. Touch on it. And I love everybody. Like everyone who comes on is different in terms of why they’re successful. Some people are just uber consistent. Some people are like problem solvers and doing a bunch of different things. And it’s always, it’s different.

Every single person that I talked to in these interviews, which is really cool. And that’s just like, you all started at the same spot. You figured out how to do that first deal. And then you grew from there. But one thing I love about what you’re doing is you don’t like take leads for granted. Like you figure out solutions for them.

And I think that’s what you need to do coming in this business. But what advice do you have for someone like looking to get in this business, someone who’s listening to this, like they’re on wall street too, or they’re in wholesaling or, or whatever it is, they’re a developer. What, what’s your advice for someone looking to get in potentially?

Philip: Yeah, I guess when you’re in a tough situation, you need to tell yourself that plenty of other people who are land investors are, have had the exact same hurdles before. And just kind of push through it like this isn’t a business where if you just give up easily, you’re going to do well. And you know, like there’s people who I think I said this in the discord the other day, like I call them every day for like 10 days or something on the 11th day they answer and they’re happy to talk to me.

And so, you know, you talk to people who are just getting into this business and they’re like, yeah, he said he wanted to sell. He said he’d get back to me and he hasn’t gotten back to me like. No, this is someone who’s owned their land for like decades and they, you know, still haven’t sold it. Like, you gotta help them put, you know, like bring them to the finish line.

So, I think, you know, and then also don’t get fixated on bad leads. Like, I used to get fixated on bad leads. I’m sure everybody does when they start out. They don’t know what bad leads are. But also, like, the cure for getting too obsessed with bad leads is just having more leads. Like, I just have, honestly, like, I can’t get fixated on a bad lead.

Other leads. I got to focus on. Right.

Ron A.: That’s a good point. Anything else you want to touch on?

Philip: No,

Ron A.: no, no. So make sure we touch on anything. You got any more questions? I think

Dan A.: we’re all good. I’m just curious. Cause you’re really doubling down right now. What, do you see a trait with successful land investors across the board from like a success level of something they all have in common?

Philip: Yeah, definitely grit as far as like, you know, just keep calling the seller. Like if someone hates you and they live on the other side of the country and you don’t know them, like Who cares, you know, like, and, you know, when I first started out, like, I mean, even like just other real estate where people don’t like you or whatever, like.

Who cares?

Ron A.: Yeah. All right. So before we end this, Philip, I, I want to make sure we touch on everything that you wanted to touch on anything else you wanted to add to this.

Philip: Yeah. I guess a couple of things that have been working out for me a lot lately is getting notaries to get to sign, to bring purchase agreements to sellers to sign because it creates an artificial deadline where it’s like, okay, can I have a notary come to your house to sign at this time?

When you send out a docusign, I think a lot of times some people just sit on it forever. It also helps with double closes that you need notarized attorney in fact, because There’s no explanation as like, Oh, this has to be notarized. They just show up with the documents and they’re notarized and you’re good.

It also creates a level of trust with the seller because you have someone on the ground there that’s able to meet them and kind of act as your representative. So I think that’s huge. And they

Dan A.: talk it over too. Like they can walk them through the whole process. Notaries are pretty good in general.

Philip: Yeah.

And they’re not that expensive. Yeah. And then another thing that has been really good for me to kind of set up the dynamic with sellers. Well is let’s say that, you know, they say to me you know, I need some time to think about it or like, you know, they say, yeah, that sounds good. I’ll have to get back to you.

I say, okay, great. Like, when’s a good time to follow up with you? And so, you know, if they say follow up with me on Tuesday or whatever, I give them a call Tuesday. And if they never get mad at me for calling them on Tuesday, they’re like, oh, that’s right. I told him I’d be, you know, ready on Tuesday. Like, it’s kind of like your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever you tell them.

They ask you to do something and. You’re like, okay, I’ll do it tonight. The next day, it’s not done. Well, you promised them that you would do it, you know, tonight and you didn’t. And so, if you hold sellers accountable for their own words, not in a negative way, but they’ll hold themselves accountable.

They’ll say, oh, that’s right. I told you I was going to give you a call back and I didn’t, you know. And then it’s kind of, you know, it also builds trust because you’re being consistent. You mean what you say and you say what you mean, so. It’s great. Right. It’s a good point. It’s a good way to

Ron A.: look at it.

Yeah. Other than that, guys, thank you again, Phillip, for coming on. If you guys are watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button below, listen on Spotify or Apple, share this with a friend. Other than that, thank you so much. We’ll see you next time. Thanks for joining guys.

Dan A.: As always, thank you for joining.

Please do us a huge favor and like and subscribe our YouTube channel and share this with a friend. It really means the world to Ron and I, but more importantly, it could help change the life of someone else. Thanks for joining and we’ll see you next episode.

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_mask_size_scale='false' _mask_size_scale_tablet='false' _mask_size_scale_mobile='false' _mask_position='false' _mask_position_tablet='false' _mask_position_mobile='false' _mask_position_x='false' _mask_position_x_tablet='false' _mask_position_x_mobile='false' _mask_position_y='false' _mask_position_y_tablet='false' _mask_position_y_mobile='false' _mask_repeat='false' _mask_repeat_tablet='false' _mask_repeat_mobile='false' hide_desktop='false' hide_tablet='false' hide_mobile='false' _attributes='false' custom_css='false']https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa0Hii5X_g4[/embedpress]